Exploring the Danger, Trauma, and Grief for a Palestinian Therapist in the United States: An anonymous interview
As part of a double-episode release, Curt and Katie share an anonymous interview with a Palestinian American therapist about their experience in our profession and in the United States both historically and since the attacks in Israel on October 7, 2023. We explore what therapists need to know about Palestine, Palestinian culture, and Palestinians in the diaspora. We also identify additional resources for Palestinian therapists in the diaspora.
Click here to scroll to the podcast transcript.Transcript
In this podcast episode, we look at the challenges Palestinian American Therapists face in our communities and our profession
We reached out to Palestinian American colleagues to work to get the perspective of these individuals during the last year as well as historically. Due to safety concerns, our interviewee decided to be interviewed anonymously. Curt and Katie shared written interview questions and answers in this episode.
What has the historical reaction been to Palestinian therapists?
- The interviewee reports fears of sharing their true identity due to safety concerns or bias
- There is a discussion of the general lack of knowledge about “The Situation” in Israel and Palestine, with a high level of avoidance and an unbalanced portrayal of the issue
- Palestinian therapists have to decide when and how they will disclose their identity to clients, considering the impact on the clinical work
What should therapists know about Palestine, Palestinian Culture, and Palestinians in the diaspora?
“Growing up Palestinian, the values of connection, community, and resilience were always at the forefront of my upbringing. One of my strongest memories is flipping through a thick phone directory published for Palestinian Americans connected to Ramallah. I was amazed not just by how many pages there were, but by the number of people who shared my last name, all committed to staying connected through a shared homeland. This sense of community was also reflected in the annual gatherings of thousands of Palestinians from Ramallah across the world, whose primary aim was to maintain that bond. I admired the proud, philanthropic individuals I encountered and was always moved by the stories of past generations’ sacrifices to create safe futures for their families.” – Anonymous Interview with a Palestinian American Therapist
- There is a rich and complex history for Palestinians, deeply tied to experiences of displacement, resilience, and a strong sense of community
- One of the most significant events in Palestinian history is the Nakba (or catastrophe) which saw the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland in 1948. This event has led to intergenerational trauma and collective grief.
- There are generational differences in the Palestinian experience to be aware of
- Palestinians are misclassified as “Caucasian” within the US Census, which does not reflect lived experiences of racial discrimination or lack of privilege.
What has the experience been like over the past year, with heightened awareness of Palestine and the conflict in Gaza?
“Some [Palestinian] therapists even questioned their ability to continue working with certain clients. How can you provide unconditional positive regard to someone who believes that you and your family deserve to be erased from existence?” – Anonymous Interview with a Palestinian American Therapist
- There has been a heightened sense of dread and the ability to remain invisible or avoid the topic has been taken away
- Safety, even with therapy clients, has been questioned
- Difficulty balancing denouncing the violence committed by Hamas, while also advocating for Palestinian human rights without being branded a terrorist sympathizer
What do therapists need to know about working with Palestinian clients in the diaspora at this time?
- Clients may be reluctant to share feelings about the conflict due to the challenges in doing so without judgment or fear for their own safety
- Therapists need to have an understanding of the conflict and the broader context, to help avoid relying on the emotional labor of the client to educate
- Palestinians are not a monolith (there are religious, cultural and socioeconomic differences, as well as different reasons for emigration), so it is important to see and connect to the client in front of you
How has the Israel-Hamas war entered into therapist and professional spaces?
- Most vocal advocates are not Palestinian or Arab due to safety concerns
- The advocacy seems primarily on social media, rather than in typical professional spaces where this advocacy and support is kept private
How can therapists in the diaspora navigate global tragedies in their homeland?
- Seek and Accept Support: Don’t hesitate to reach out for support from colleagues or professional networks. It’s crucial to have spaces where you can share and process your experiences.
- Engage in Personal Therapy: Utilize personal therapy more actively. Having a space to openly discuss and navigate your identity and feelings can be invaluable, especially when faced with such intense global events.
- Choose Supportive Communities Wisely: Be discerning about the communities and support networks you engage with. Ensure they offer a safe and respectful space for sharing and discussion and be mindful of how public or anonymous these spaces are.
Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:
We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!
Suggested research:
Palestinian Families – by Nuha Abudabbeh from ETHNICITY AND FAMILY THERAPY
Handbook of Arab American Psychology – Edited By Mona Amer, Germine Awad
Cross-Cultural Counseling: The Arab-Palestinian Case – By Frank De Piano
Professional Organizations:
AMENAPSY (American Arab, Middle Eastern, and North African Psychological Association) – search for a therapist
Not specific to therapists:
American Muslim Health Professionals
Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:
Iran, The News, and Your Clients: An Interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD and Negeen Moussavian, AMFT
Invisible and Scrutinized, An Interview with Dr. Sheila Modir
Vulnerability, The News, and You: An Interview with Dr. Abigail Weissman
Therapists Are Not Robots: How We Can Show Humanity in the Room
REPLAY – Therapists Are Not Robots: How We Can Show Humanity in the Room
Antiracist Practices in the Room: An Interview with Dr. Allen Lipscomb
Who we are:
Curt Widhalm, LMFT
Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: http://www.curtwidhalm.com
Katie Vernoy, LMFT
Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com
A Quick Note:
Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.
Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.
Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:
Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:
Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:
Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group
Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:
Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/
Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/
Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):
Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements).
… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)
Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.
Curt Widhalm 0:15
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast for therapists about the things going on in our world, the way that it affects us as therapists, the way that it affects the clients that we serve. And this is one of two episodes that we’re dropping at the same time, so hopefully you are going to listen to both of them together. In our other episode, we explored anti semitism in the therapist community, the therapist profession. We also wanted to have a look at the other side of the last 12 months around the Israel Hamas war, and the way that it’s affecting the therapist communities, and in particular, making some space for the Palestinian American therapist communities. And we had put out to a number of different therapists, different organizations, as far as, hey, we’d love for a guest on this topic. And we were met with a resounding amount of support around the idea. And a very unique situation that came up was a lot of people who did not want at all to be the guest to be interviewed on this. We went through some back and forth with a couple of people, and the person that agreeed to be the subject of this episode is doing so on a condition of anonymity. And I think through the discussion that we’re having today, some of the safety concerns, some of the feelings that have come up are very present and very much validated in this process. And so Katie and I decided that we would do this as something that we’ve never done before. We are working with our guest, and had sent out questions ahead of time. We were able to get written responses. Katie and I will read those answers through this episode, and we’re going to take turns doing this, just so that way it’s not one of us that’s going to be speaking for the majority of this episode. We are recording this with our guest watching us, so we are getting feedback in real time on our end. You’re not going to be able to see them, but just for ensuring some of the accuracy. So, thank you for joining us on this part of our journey as well, and being able to look at what’s it like being a Palestinian American therapist in the environment that we’re in right now.
Katie Vernoy 2:54
So all of the questions that we’ve asked, we’re going to try to explain our rationale and put together what we’re trying to get to, and then read the answers. The answers are very powerful, and so I’m hoping that you’ll really listen to them and recognize that this is us trying to convey another person’s words. But before we jump into our questions, our interviewee did want to have an opening statement, and that’s what this is. “Before diving into these questions, I want to explain why I’ve chosen to respond in writing and remain anonymous. As a Palestinian American therapist, discussing identity openly can carry personal and professional risks, especially in today’s increasingly polarized climate. The space for rational, open minded discussion has become even more restricted, making it challenging to engage without fear of misunderstanding, mischaracterization or retaliation. While I’m proud of my heritage, I’ve also experienced how public perceptions and biases around Palestinian identity can affect my work and personal life. By responding in this way I can speak candidly about my experiences without worrying about potential consequences or detracting from the message I want to share. I also want to express my appreciation to Curt and Katie for working with me to find a solution that allows my perspective to be shared while protecting myself and my family. It means a great deal to be part of this important conversation without risking unintended fallout. It’s important to me that the focus stays on the broader conversation about the challenges and complexities faced by Palestinian American therapists, rather than my specific identity. This isn’t about avoiding the topic. It’s about ensuring that the ideas and issues I’m raising are what stand out, rather than becoming secondary to the politics or assumptions that so often accompany any mention of Palestine. I also want to assert that I abhor the actions of Hamas and have decried their existence since they came into power in Gaza. Their despicable actions on October 7 and their subsequent treatment of the hostages is inexcusable, disruptive to any peace process and exacerbates the challenges that Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims experience around the world. I also want to be clear that I fully support Israel’s right to exist and live peacefully, as well as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I pray for an end to all of this soon.”
Curt Widhalm 5:19
This speaks to the gravity in ways that we can’t speak on behalf, and I just want to really express the appreciation and thoughtfulness that goes into joining us on a project like this.
Katie Vernoy 5:32
We did send over the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, who are you and what are you putting out into the world?
Curt Widhalm 5:39
“I’ve been a licensed marriage and family therapist for over a decade with a primary focus on supporting individuals with serious mental illnesses. My professional journey has taken me through a range of settings, from private practice, residential facilities and incarcerated environments. Beyond direct clinical work, I’ve been fortunate to lead multidisciplinary teams and contribute to behavioral health tech organizations designing clinical tools that enhance the lives of both providers and clients. My decision to become a therapist started early. I knew this was my calling when I was a child. Growing up Palestinian, the values of connection, community and resilience were always at the forefront of my upbringing. One of my strongest memories is flipping through a thick phone directory published for Palestinian Americans connected to Ramallah. I was amazed not just by how many pages there were, but by the number of people who shared my last name, all committed to staying connected through a shared homeland. The sense of community was also reflected in the annual gatherings of 1000s of Palestinians from Ramallah across the world, whose primary aim was to maintain that bond. I admired the proud, philanthropic individuals I encountered, and was always moved by stories of past generation sacrifices to create safe futures for their families. This deep, rooted sense of belonging to something larger than myself inspired me to pursue a career where I could give back, particularly to those facing the toughest of circumstances. What I aim to put out into the world is a dedication to fostering authentic connection and resilience, whether it’s through direct therapy, shaping clinical programs or developing tools that make mental health care more accessible and effective. My goal is to help people navigate their struggles and discover their inner strengths, much like my background has taught me. Every aspect of my work is about empowering individuals to move through adversity with a sense of agency and hope.”
Katie Vernoy 7:25
I love that. I think that the story that has already begun here is so compelling to me.
… 7:30
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Curt Widhalm 7:33
We usually start some of these episodes around cross cultural issues, cultural awareness and cultural humility, talking about some of the history and framing some of our questions, and I know that this is something that is usually depending on who you ask, you’re going to get a different answer. But what has the historical reaction been to Palestinian therapists?
Katie Vernoy 7:58
“As a therapist, I’ve often found myself avoiding directly disclosing my Palestinian identity, opting instead for broader terms like Middle Eastern or Arab when clients inquired about my background. Each time I was asked, I felt a mix of anxiety, hoping my answer was sufficient without inviting more specific questions. Of course, there are the clinical responses to navigate these situations. For instance, responding with, I’m curious why that feels important to you, or I prefer not to share more about myself. However, balancing that professional approach with my personal desire to not hide who I am was always difficult. It felt like concealing my identity only deepened the misunderstanding and vilification of Palestinians, which is already so prevalent. Another reason I hesitated to disclose my background was to avoid clients feeling the need to take care of me or offer sympathy. The therapeutic space is for them, not me, and I worried that being openly Palestinian might shift that balance. I know other therapists in the field have faced similar dilemmas, sometimes choosing a safer identity like Jordanian or Lebanese, to avoid the complications that can come with identifying as Palestinian. This challenge extends into the workplace, too. I’ve only ever disclosed my identity to close trusted colleagues, and only once I felt confident in their understanding of, quote, unquote, ‘the situation’. The situation refers to how being Palestinian American is inseparable from the broader conflict between Palestine and Israel in the minds of others. Most Americans know little about Palestine beyond the existence of a conflict, let alone the full story behind it, and even less about its rich history, culture and diversity. This lack of knowledge, often driven by the sensitive and unbalanced betrayal of the issue perpetuates a cycle of avoidance, a cycle that I and others like me play a part in by not speaking openly about our identities out of need for safety. In a professional context, I’ve often felt the weight of this avoidance. For example, I once worked at a community mental health clinic affiliated with a large Jewish social justice organization. And despite their focus on social justice, I was careful to conceal my identity, feeling that revealing I was Palestinian could lead to being mischaracterized, treated differently, or even jeopardizing my job. I know others who identify as Arab or Muslim have similar fears, and this concern is even more heightened in today’s climate. One experience stands out vividly for me. I was conducting an intake with a new client who identified as Jewish. He shared that his anxiety stemmed from an incident at his university where he had been reprimanded for aggressively confronting a Students for Justice in Palestine group that was given permission to demonstrate on campus. He was upset feeling he had been standing up for Israel. At that moment, I made the difficult decision to disclose my Palestinian identity, allowing him to decide if he wanted to continue therapy with me or see another therapist. I still grapple with that decision. On one hand, I feel guilty about the possibility of disrupting his therapy process, as I know that I would have remained neutral and professional. On the other hand, I feared that if he discovered my identity later, he might feel betrayed and lose trust in therapy. Over the years, I’ve encountered several instances where clients expressed negative or misinformed views about Palestinians or Palestine. In those moments, I focused on staying neutral and guiding the conversation toward the therapeutic process, rather than engaging with the content of their statements. It was important for me to keep my personal views and reactions separate from my role as their therapist. In summary, before this year, the experience of Palestinian therapists has largely been one of hiding and avoidance to prevent scrutiny, challenges in the therapy room, or risks to personal safety. This mirrors the broader societal experience of Palestinians in America. We are often left with few options to express our identities authentically, despite our profession’s focus on authenticity, acceptance and openness. While I’ve worked in a relatively liberal environment where this has been somewhat easier, I know that for others, particularly during moments like the Muslim travel ban, the stakes have been higher and the need for caution even greater. We hold on to our sense of self within our families and communities, even as we carry the burden of knowing that the world’s most powerful governments often work against the hope we have for human rights and dignity.”
Curt Widhalm 12:19
Even having some of my own personal connections with people who identify as Palestinian, I never recognize just quite the lengths that they had to go through. And and, you know, being trusted, I mean, I’m reflecting more on my process, and I don’t want to center that in this episode at all, but this in particular, really stands out to me of things that I’m still learning about, and am really glad to have this point of view and this consideration to be had.
Katie Vernoy 12:55
And I think we’ll get into some of that later in the episode. And then I also want to comment that there’s a lot of resources that our interviewee supplied to us that we’ll put over in the show notes over at mtsgpodcast com. But I think the next question speaks to some of what you’re talking about, as far as learning more and being able to help our clients in a more effective way. What should therapists know about Palestine, Palestinian culture, and Palestinians in the diaspora.
Curt Widhalm 13:21
“Therapists working with Palestinian clients should be aware that their identity is shaped by a rich and complex history, deeply tied to experiences of displacement, resilience and a strong sense of community. One of the most significant events in Palestinian history is the Nakba, or catastrophe, which saw the forced displacement of hundreds of 1000s of Palestinians from their homeland in 1948. Even those who weren’t directly affected by this event carry the weight of it through intergenerational trauma. Understanding this collective grief and how it informs both personal and shared experiences is crucial when working with Palestinian clients in therapy. Generational differences also play a significant role. Older generations may hold tightly to cultural traditions and emphasize the importance of preserving their heritage, while younger Palestinians may feel the pull to assimilate into western society. Earlier waves of immigrants often experienced intense pressure to blend in, sometimes at the expense of cultural identity. Younger generations, on the other hand, may struggle with balancing family expectations with their own desire for integration. This tension can emerge in therapy, particularly as clients navigate the conflict between serving their roots and adapting to a new environment. Additionally, many Palestinians, like other Middle Easterners, are classified as Caucasian in the US Census, a designation that doesn’t reflect their lived experience of racial discrimination or the lack of societal privileges that typically come with whiteness. While there’s been a push for greater recognition as a distinct group, this issue often complicates identity further for Palestinians, and can be a source of frustration. Therapists should be attuned to these layers of identity and how they intersect with each client’s unique experience. Approaching therapy with cultural humility and an openness to learning.”
Katie Vernoy 15:08
I think every time we have an episode with different typically oppressed populations, I’m I’m struck by how much really comes down to cultural humility, listening to the person in front of you and trying to understand their unique experience. I’m also struck by how similar this experience of being misclassified on identity documents is similar to what’s in our other episode on the Jewish folks. So I just, I think there’s a lot of things that bring us together and trying to understand people for who they are, is what we’re hoping we can do with some of this, that some of these episodes.
Curt Widhalm 15:49
And in particular, part of our interest is being able to talk about these two issues, and Katie and I recognize that we have not made any statements about this since October 7. We have taken a really long time to come to terms with what we wanted to put out into the world about this, and really being able to focus on the stories that have been going on, in particular with what has been happening over the past year. And with that, we ask, What has the experience been like over the past year, with heightened awareness of Palestine and the conflict in Gaza?
Katie Vernoy 16:28
“The experience over the past year has been continually evolving for me and for other Palestinian therapists. Initially, the predominant emotion was dread, dread about what this would mean for the people of Palestine, for our families and friends still there, and for how our clients would talk about it in sessions. We were acutely aware of how deeply personal this conflict was for us. If the challenge of containing our fear, anger and pain in the presence of clients who might want to discuss the war felt overwhelming. Some of us feared those conversations with clients who held anti Palestinian views. The status quo, where many of us could avoid the subject was dissolved, and we were left to navigate uncharted waters, both personally and professionally. As therapists, we’re trained to hold space for difficult discussions, and we regularly help clients face challenges with openness and curiosity, yet the rise in hate crimes against Palestinian Americans and the heightened visibility of the visibility of the conflict created new anxieties about our own safety and that of our families. In community forums, I saw Palestinian therapists expressing a kind of desperation, wondering how they could continue to care for clients while dealing with the burden of their own fear and trauma. There was also a very real fear of what might happen if our clients discovered our Palestinian identities, especially those who held strong views on the other side of the issue. Some therapists even questioned their ability to continue working with certain clients. How can you provide unconditional positive regard to someone who believes that you and your family deserve to be erased from existence? This dilemma is especially tough for us, as we often encourage clients to integrate conflicting thoughts and experiences, to sit with the discomfort of opposing ideas. But when those conflicting ideas directly challenge your humanity, it makes the therapeutic process much more fraught. As I mentioned earlier, this internal conflict is compounded by the pressure to disavow violence committed by Hamas while also advocating for Palestinian human rights without being branded a terrorist sympathizer. This mirrors the therapeutic process of helping clients reconcile their own complexities, holding space for both anger and compassion, for grief and resilience. We as Palestinian therapists, want the world to know that we don’t hate Jews or Israel. What we seek is peace, dignity and human rights for Palestinians, just like every other person on this planet deserves. Navigating these conversations in therapy has been especially delicate. Clients have increasingly expressed curiosity about the conflict with many acknowledging that they know little about the Palestinian experience. This willingness to learn mirrors the slow, deliberate pace of therapy, where incremental steps lead to meaningful insights. But just as in therapy, the process of opening someone’s mind takes time, and it can be difficult to feel hopeful when we know how quickly the discourse can regress into hostility and ignorance. In my own therapy practice and in conversations with colleagues, I’ve seen how we’ve had to lean into the very qualities we nurture in our clients; adaptability, openness to discomfort and the capacity to hold complex, sometimes contradictory truths. As therapists, we’re taught to support clients in integrating difficult experiences into their broader sense of self. Over the past year, we’ve had to do the same for ourselves, balancing our professional obligations with the need for personal boundaries and self care. It’s hard to fully summarize the experience of the past year. The landscape is constantly shifting, and it feels like we’re all just taking it one day at a time, showing up for our clients in the best way we can, while navigating our own deeply personal connection to the events unfolding in the world. The challenge remains to foster openness, to help our clients integrate new learnings and perspectives, and to continue advocating for human rights even when the conversation is deeply polarizing and fraught with risk.”
Curt Widhalm 20:23
There’s been a few episodes that we’ve done in the past where it’s either us talking about going through things at the same time as our clients, or we’ve had guests on that have been going through other similar kinds of worldwide events as part of the diaspora. And this very much rings true as far as what we’ve heard consistently in all of these episodes, is having to take care of yourself, and you might not be the steps ahead of your clients that you would hope to be when it comes to some of the lived experience of being able to help out with some knowledge and wisdom, but to actively be going through it at the same time is an incredible practice in discipline, to remain in this space.
Katie Vernoy 21:12
And just so incredibly hard and potentially not doable. And so I think regardless of the hope for sharing a lived experience with your therapist while something’s happening. I think other therapists need to have a sense of what needs to be known to support these clients. And so of course, we ask that question, what do therapists need to know when working with Palestinians in the diaspora at this time?
Curt Widhalm 21:39
“Therapists working with Palestinians during this time need to be aware that clients may initially be reluctant to share their feelings about the conflict. Many Palestinians have learned to downplay or dismiss their emotions about the situation, whether by changing the subject, making light of it, or minimizing their own pain. This reluctance may stem from fear of being misunderstood, or concerned that their experiences will be reduced to political talking points rather than seen for what they are; deeply personal and human experiences. It’s crucial for therapists to approach these conversations with genuine concern but also with a solid understanding of the broader context. This is not say that you should dive into a political debate or act as an expert on the geopolitical situation, but rather that you’ve done the work to understand the historic and current realities impacting Palestinians. The therapeutic space should focus on the client’s unique experience of these events, rather than forcing them into the role of educator. This is especially important given the emotional labor that often accompanies discussing such deeply painful topics. Another key point is that Palestinians are not a monolith. The term encompasses individuals from a wide array of religious, cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds with vastly different reasons for emigrating. For instance, while many assume that all Palestinians are Muslim, there’s a significant Christian palestinian population, for example. In therapy, this means being sensitive to the diversity of experiences within the Palestinian community, including the variance in how each person has been affected by trauma, displacement or conflict. There’s also a wealth of research available on working with Middle Eastern Palestinian clients in therapy, so it’s essential to keep up with the latest findings and cultural considerations. Many of these studies highlight the importance of building trust through non judgmental and patient approach; understanding the role of community, family and collective identity in the healing process. Palestinians, like many Middle Eastern clients, may prioritize family and communal well being over individual needs, and this cultural lens should inform your therapeutic approach. Ultimately, what therapists need to know is that working with Palestinian clients during this time requires sensitivity, patience and cultural humility. It’s about holding space for complex emotions, allowing for the full range of their experiences, and recognizing the intersection of their individual identities with a larger historical and political landscape. This is how we can provide a truly supportive environment in therapy.”
Katie Vernoy 24:08
And this is one of the spots where we got some suggestions for legitimate research and some good resources that we can put in the show notes over at mtsgpodcast com.
… 24:20
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Curt Widhalm 24:22
How has the discussion around the Israel Hamas war entered into the therapist in professional space from your perspective?
Katie Vernoy 24:30
“In my experience, due to the lack of safety for Palestinian and Arab therapists, I’ve seen primarily non Palestinian or non Arab therapists be vocally pro Palestine, advocating for human rights dignity and speaking out against excessive violence and oppression. This support is primarily visible on social media platforms like Instagram, where these views are likely to find a receptive audience. However, I do genuinely appreciate the courage it takes for these professionals to make such statements publicly as it reflects a deep commitment to justice. In professional settings. however, I’ve only observed support and frustration about the conflict expressed when I broached the topic. I’ve not yet encountered any overt displays of support for Palestine in these spaces, which suggests that while there is sympathy and understanding, it often remains more private and less visible.”
Curt Widhalm 25:19
It seems like over the years, we’ve talked a lot about doing ally work, and this has to be such a weird space where allies, or people trying to do allied work are the most vocal because of some of the safety issues.
Katie Vernoy 25:38
For sure.
Curt Widhalm 25:39
And it’s, I’m assuming, and looking, looking to our guest here, I’m assuming that there’s a huge mix of emotions in seeing the support and also not being able to fully be at the forefront of it yourself, and getting confirmation from our guest here in the background that I just have to make the space for acknowledging that.
Katie Vernoy 26:07
It seems so challenging to be in, well, to be in today’s environment, but also going through this conflict, seeing the conflict, having the ongoing, the historical context of fear and the divisiveness, the upcoming election, preying on some of that as well, and trying to take care of yourself, trying to take care of your clients, your family. And so the last question that we asked, that I think, is our takeaway. It’s our calls to action to a certain extent, is, how are you navigating it? Do you have suggestions for other therapists who are also facing these types of global tragedies? We’re just looking for strategies and support because this is a very, very tough time.
Curt Widhalm 26:59
“Navigating this challenging time has been a profound personal journey. I’ve always been someone who prefers to take action and drive change, but the current situation has required me to pull back and find new ways to align with my values. Balancing the urge to act with the need to accept what is out of my control has been both frustrating and relieving. This experience has mirrored the therapeutic process I guide my clients through; struggling with acceptance and finding ways to move forward amidst uncertainty. One of the most significant lessons I’ve learned is the importance of accepting support, even though it goes against my usual independent approach to challenges. Early on, a colleague who was aware of my background reached out to check on me, which was both humbling and heartening. It reinforced, for me, the value of solidarity and compassion in our field. Conversely, I faced disappointment when another colleague with whom had previously reached out to discuss potential collaboration to enhance others’ understandings of the situation, had not reached out. While I understand and respect their position, it highlighted the complexities and challenges within our professional relationships and reminded me of the importance of staying hopeful for growth in our field’s values and seizing upon opportunities like this podast interview. I also found a Palestinian community group within a larger slack network for therapists, which initially I felt like a promising support space. However, my enthusiasm was quickly tempered when a fellow therapist used the platform to belittle and invalidate experiences, focusing provocatively on the Israeli perspective. This experience underscored the need for caution in selecting supportive communities. It’s essential to assess how public or private these spaces are, the visibility of members, and how the community manages and vets new participants. For therapists facing similar global tragedies, I recommend a few strategies. First, seek and accept support. Don’t hesitate to reach out for support from colleagues or professional networks. It’s crucial to have spaces where you can share and process your experiences. Two, engage in personal therapy. Utilize personal therapy more actively. Having a space to openly discuss, navigate your identity and feelings can be invaluable, especially when faced with such intense global events. Three, choose supportive communities wisely. Be discerning about the communities and support networks you engage with. Ensure they offer a safe and respectful space for sharing and discussion and be mindful of how public or anonymous these spaces are. Navigating these global tragedies requires a delicate balance of personal resilience and professional integrity. By practicing self care, seeking appropriate supports and engaging thoughtfully with our professional communities, we can continue to uphold our therapeutic values while managing our own emotional well being.”
Katie Vernoy 29:48
Such great advice. I really appreciate that our interviewee was very generous, provided a lot of resources on professional organizations, research, a lot more things. Those things, obviously, are over in our show notes at mtsgpodcast com, but I just wanted to reflect on this advice is good for all folks, and I think that we need to really pay attention to how we take care of ourselves, but truly how we take care of each other. I just keep coming back to when society gets divisive about any kind of global tragedy or conflict. It seems like it infests our professional organizations, our professional spaces, and we become what is not helpful oftentimes. And so my hope is in doing these two episodes, we’ll be able to at least open some light, some humanity into the this conflict, so that folks maybe think a little bit differently about how we’re showing up as a profession.
Curt Widhalm 30:47
You can find our show notes over at mtsgpodcast com. Follow us on our social media. Join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, to continue on with this conversation, and until next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. And a very special thanks to our guest today.
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