Reigniting Therapy

Reigniting Therapy

An interview with Dr. Daryl Chow regarding how to do effective therapy. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Chow about the ways in which therapists can improve clinically – looking at the relationship, the expectations of clients, and what we each uniquely bring to the room. We also discuss deliberate practice, lifelong learning, and the difference between confidence and competence.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych)

Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych) is a practicing psychologist and trainer. He is a senior associate of the International Center for Clinical Excellence (ICCE). He devotes his time to workshops, consultations and researches the development of expertise and highly effective psychotherapists, helping practitioners to achieve better results.

Daryl is the author of The First Kiss: Undoing the Intake Model and Igniting First Sessions in Psychotherapy. His work has also appeared in edited books, peer-reviewed journal articles, and he is a co-editor of The Write to Recovery: Personal Stories & Lessons about Recovery from Mental Health Concerns.

Daryl’s blog, Frontiers of Psychotherapist Development is aimed at inspiring and sustaining practitioners’ individualized professional development. His highly personalized in-depth online course for supervisors, Reigniting Clinical Supervision, serves as a leading light to help raise the bar of effectiveness in psychotherapy.

Currently, Daryl maintains a private practice with a vibrant team at Henry Street Centre, Fremantle, and continues to serve as a senior psychologist at the Institute of Mental Health, Singapore.

In this episode we talk about:

  • Chow describing himself as a slow learner
  • The value of deep learning
  • The problems with therapist education
  • Banking versus kindling model of education
  • Learning conversation versus theory
  • The importance of practical learning
  • How we get in the way as therapists
  • How to manage first sessions (what you are gifting, versus what you are taking)
  • Undoing the intake perspective
  • We are not in the business of fast food
  • Trajectory of change, continuity of services
  • 20-30% of people come only for one session
  • “Sufficing” our information rather than deep probing
  • “Information is not transformation” – Dr. Daryl Chow
  • First principles and the hero’s journey
  • Evidence-based therapy versus developing good therapists
  • Deliberate practice as a verb
  • “It is so much easier to buy tools than to get good”
  • What is NOT deliberate practice
  • “Confidence is not competence”
  • We get worse as therapists over time if we don’t practice deliberately
  • The importance of lifelong learning
  • The systemic challenges to maintaining skills and getting better
  • What to work on that has leverage for you – finding your own growth edges
  • Measuring growth versus measuring performance
  • Re-moralizing clinicians through improving efficacy
  • The role of burnout and overwhelm in becoming complacent
  • The importance of feedback and “feeding forward” and making tweaks
  • Continuous calibration approach

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Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

The First Kiss: Undoing the Intake Model by Dr. Daryl Chow

Better Results: Using Deliberate Practice to Improve Therapeutic Effectiveness by Scott D. Miller  (Author), Mark A. Hubble  (Author), Daryl Chow (Author)

Dr. Daryl Chow’s Website

Daryl’s website for therapists: Frontiers in Psychotherapist Development

Reigniting Clinical Supervision

Relevant Episodes:

Be a Better Therapist

Finding Your Blind Spots

Person of the Therapist

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined Conferences

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Who we are:

Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, the CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at:

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at:

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Stay in Touch:

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapist’s Group


Voice Over by DW McCann

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano

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