REPLAY – Outside Obsessions

We’re still on vacation, but we wanted to share one of our favorite episodes with all of you. We start with a quick reflection on the episode and what we’ve learned since it originally aired. Today’s replay is of Episode 95: Outside Obsessions. In this episode we talk about how to handle the hobbies and goals in our personal lives that can be all consuming, especially if they come into the therapy room.

You can see the original show notes and transcripts for episode 95 here: Outside Obsessions.

Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):

(Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements).

… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)

Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.

Curt Widhalm 0:15
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast for therapists about things that go on in our lives, where the things that used to go on in our lives. Or an awkward introduction to another throwback episode is Katie and I are taking a little bit of time off through the holiday season here. Last week, we talked about Katie’s favorite episode from the past around setting goals. This one is when you set those goals, and then you keep doing those goals, and then that’s all you can talk about in any aspect of your life. I’m throwing back to Episode 95 on Outside Obsessions.

Katie Vernoy 0:56
So, you gotta tell me what drew you to this episode, because I thought it was kind of fun. And I think the episode artwork, I put people running, because at the time, you were preparing for marathons and that kind of stuff, and I was doing a whole bunch of home remodeling. But things have changed quite a bit since then.

Curt Widhalm 1:14
Yeah. So, as I’m going through some new stuff in my life, going through some remodeling things myself, I just remodeled my office as well over the last several months. So very much in the remodel game right now. But one of the things that strikes me about this is I’ve been talking with a lot of newer therapists lately about finding this balance between bringing yourself into the therapy room, being deliberate in how you talk about things, because it can get very easy just to get super sidetracked into whatever it is that’s going on in somebody’s life, including your own. So being able to find where to balance that authenticity with real life, tangible examples with clients, rather than just kind of talking about whatever the news du jour is or what’s hanging over us. So, I like this one. It’s very positive. It’s one of my favorite episodes, as far as, like, yeah, we are going to talk about ourselves from time to time with clients. I think there’s some pretty good advice in this one about how to strike that.

Katie Vernoy 2:21
I love it.

Curt Widhalm 2:22
Thank you for listening. And once you’re done, make sure you follow us on our social media. Come and join us over in our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, and we’ll see you next week with brand new episode.

Curt Widhalm 2:37
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. Thank you for joining us and wherever you listen to your podcast, if you wouldn’t mind going over there and leaving us a rating and a review, it really helps us out. I’m Curt Widhalm. My co host is Katie Vernoy. And one of the things that I do outside of my practice is I have long been an avid runner. I’ve completed several marathons, and have found that as I get into running, that it’s one of those things that permeates every conversation that I have. So I am one of those runners who manages to weave into a lot of conversations, especially during training season, about the running that I do, mostly for me, because it’s a time where I think a lot, right, come up with ideas, and that’s where I have the space of, hey, I was out on a run the other day, and I thought about this thing. But it can sometimes get into my sessions.

Katie Vernoy 3:35
I bet it probably gets into your sessions quite a bit.

Curt Widhalm 3:38
Guilty as charged. So, today’s episode is when your personal life, even in very positive ways, starts to permeate into sessions. And kind of this idea of when you’re really involved with something that’s not therapy, of how that identity comes back into your work, how it comes into your branding, and both positive ways and some maybe pitfalls of things to look out for. So I’m a runner. I’m guilty. I acknowledge that up front.

Katie Vernoy 4:09
I think for me, the things that have come into my sessions are like hiking. I did a lot of metaphors around hiking. I did a big hike and just had some really great breakthroughs for myself. And I found that there was some of my therapy clients that really felt that that was powerful to share those and kind of imagine me on this really steep mountain, trying to climb up it, and that kind of stuff. And I think to me sometimes just having life experiences that are notable, that are different, that are but are relatable. Can be really helpful for clients. But I do know that there are times when I worry that my personal life passions will come in in a way that’s a little weird. For example, one of my outside activities is do it yourself. Remodeling the house, gardening, painting. Doing all the things that you do when you have a house and you are trying to clean it up. And so there are times when I’m remodeling my house when I’m covered in scrapes and bruises, or I’ve got paint that just doesn’t come off, or whatever. You know, I’ve gotten sunburned, and for me, it doesn’t feel relevant to my clients. Sometimes it does impact my metaphors, but I worry that I look a little battered and bruised, and it could be triggering to my clients, and so I end up wearing longer sleeves. You know, it’s just, it’s stuff like that, where it’s like, how do we deal with this stuff? Because, and how do we decide which comes into the room and which doesn’t? So how do you make that call Curt? Because I think for me, I try to figure out if it’s going to be relevant. And all the things we talk about with self disclosure, but when it’s so focused in our mind, when it’s very present, how do we make sure that we’re not bringing too much of our stuff into the room?

Curt Widhalm 5:54
Probably the biggest example of this for me, and just as an athlete, that one of the things that makes it most evident and unavoidable is when I have injuries. That it’s either something where I’m walking slowly because of overuse injuries, or something is hurt, or I’m just cramping up in session and needing to stretch out or something like that. But most prevalent was about six or seven years ago, when I was in a major accident from training and had my jaw wired and several stitches in my face and was seeing clients, and there was really no avoiding it at that point. I was fairly open with my clients about what had happened, just because I wanted to get through those questions for my clients to be able to move on with things. But now that I’m a little older, a little bit wiser, a little bit more in control of my training, I definitely see that it’s not something that needs to be led off with, and so much like you, it’s being able to impart it as part of the wisdom of being able to fit it into the client’s issues and not necessarily really lead it out there, hit them in the face with it, that it seems to be when it comes up as a relevant thing. That being said, in my practice, I have a very highly functioning group of clients where sharing this part of my life is safe with them. That you know they they can know that I’m running, and for anybody listening, I am running the LA Marathon this coming Sunday. So I’m fine with that, like, you know, it’s it’s a long course. It’s not like I’m going to be at this place at this time if somebody’s tracking me on runner tracking, you know, fine. They’re going to see where I cross at certain points in the course, and they might know that little thing about me. I try to turn this into a positive as much as possible. That, you know, look what you can do when you commit to something. Look what you can accomplish, what you can find out about yourself. I am cautious around certain things, like clients presenting with eating disorders, of being able to talk about things within control of exercise and staying within my scope of practice on that, I am a little bit more guarded when issues might be triggering to clients, but if it’s seemingly healthy and adaptable for clients to recognize that there is other aspects of life that you can have multiple interests. I find it as a very positive thing to lead by example.

Katie Vernoy 8:29
I agree. I think the times in my life when I’ve been incorporating especially kind of the healthy obsessions, where I am, and maybe obsessions is too strong of a word, especially when you just talked about eating disorders and that kind of stuff. So I want to be cautious with that word. But when I’ve been very focused on the areas outside of my life where I’m really looking at health and wellness, I find that my clients, even if we’re not talking about it, my clients, seem to be impacted positively by it as well. They can see a brighter light shining in my face. They can see that I’m taking care of myself, and I find that sometimes, and maybe it’s just what I’m, you know, kind of that attribution bias, where I’m looking for what I’m seeing in myself in my clients. But oftentimes I find that my my clients cycle a little bit with me on my when I’m taking better care of myself. I find that it seems like my clients are also doing so. And I think part of it is it’s a little bit of an accountability where you clearly are very healthy right now, I see, I see that in you, and I feel very inspired by it as well. And I know that even if you’re not necessarily talking to a specific client about what’s going on, that they’re going to feel inspired, and they’re going to feel like, hey, this person who’s in my corner is walking his talk, and I think that’s so powerful that it has to come into the room. I mean, obviously, if you’re looking healthy or you’re not looking healthy, that’s gonna be very present. But at some point talking about those things seems to not be self serving, but it seems to be less present with the client, because it’s something that’s so focused. And I don’t know, I mean, I’m not saying specifically that you’re doing this, although, who knows, maybe you are. I’m not going to let you off the hook. But I think that there’s times when these things feel so present for us, and it’s so where our mind goes that we can fall into that trap of having everything come back to whether it’s those types of metaphors or because it’s, you know, running a marathon’s no joke. I’ve not done it, but like…

Curt Widhalm 10:34
Oh, there’s plenty of Marathon jokes. For our long time listeners, I am really holding back a lot of dad jokes about marathons here.

Katie Vernoy 10:44
But I think it’s, it’s something where there are kind of transformative pieces to it that it could be all consuming. And so I guess my caution, and maybe you can address this, is having something that’s so all consuming, that is so powerful that’s happening in your life. Like I don’t think we should not do these personal growth activities, but, but figuring out, how do you give yourself enough space for that and being totally present in the room?

… 11:14
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Curt Widhalm 11:14
So part of my practice is working with athletes, and have a fair number of athletes at any point in my practice and various levels, from recreational kind of adapting things into just a healthier lifestyle, maybe moving out of depression and incorporating exercise on a recreational level, all the way up to people at the highest levels of competition, and whether it be semi professional, professional, Olympic caliber athletes. So definitely something where my practice overlies a lot of what I do in my personal life, anyway. This is across a number of sports, not just other runners, but other competitive sports as well, and for client confidentiality, that’s where I will leave that. But where I talk about it is, we all want therapists who get the nuances of what our particular interests or our particular problems might come up with. And you know, there is a part of us as therapists that enters into the client’s world. But when I’m working with a athlete who comes from a different sport, where I pull my experience of being a runner is, here’s here’s where I see the similarities from my experience as by this very short example here. I don’t know the nuances of your sport of underwater bowling.

Katie Vernoy 12:51
That sounds like a fun sport.

Curt Widhalm 12:52
I’m really just going to go with underwater bowling, just to keep…

Katie Vernoy 12:55
Let’s just dive in.

Curt Widhalm 12:56
That’s the first step of underwater bowling, is diving in. But in being able to talk about the overall experiences of being an athlete, it’s that credibility of I know where you’re coming from, and I don’t necessarily need to know the details of what you do in the third hour of your practice versus what I do in the first hour of my practice. It’s something where it’s just kind of that I get in concept what you’re going through that helps to make it for the benefit of the client. And I think that that’s what I have been taught very well from even my grad school experience, is that our self disclosures need to come for the benefit of the client. And I think that there’s a lot of therapists who are even hesitant of, well, I don’t know if this is for the benefit of my client, so therefore I’m not going to say anything. And that can potentially just drag out therapy a little bit longer, make that connection not quite as strong. And that’s really where I think that the advantage to the client comes in is when you can make it: Here’s the point of why I’m bringing this up.

Katie Vernoy 14:04
I’m even talking beyond self disclosure, though, because I know there’s times when one of my obsessions that’s outside of my therapy practice is this little conference called the Therapy Reimagined conference, and this podcast. And so there are times when in the in my sessions, I have to recognize that I’m not just observing my therapy session in order to, you know, bring a an example into the podcast episode, for example. I mean, for me, it’s also about being consciously present. When there’s something that is taking so much mental, physical, emotional space in our life, I feel like there’s, there’s a piece of making sure there’s just enough room. And I think for me, what I’ve found is oftentimes, and this is, I’m definitely still work in progress on this, but it’s figuring out how much time I can actually devote to each area of my life without filling in so many of the spaces, so that I’m back to back with, okay, now I have to shift my head, my head to something else again, or I have to move from this to this. Or even, like, I’m thinking about a home improvement project, somebody will, you know, my client will start talking about something very peripheral, and it’s like, oh, I need to not ask about, you know, what type of paint they were using. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s more about when we’re truly focused outside of our therapy practice on something that’s really resonant and exciting to us. I think it can be hard not to find those opportunities, even within session, to explore deeper, to learn more. I mean, I think there’s obviously with our conference and the podcast, it kind of, it flows together. It’s not bad. But if I’m really trying to sort through, you know, what restaurant someone went to, because I’m a foodie like it just, it’s, it’s something where there’s pieces where you can connect. I mean, I’ve definitely connected with some of my foodie clients. I’ve connected with some of my the folks that you know they I think they feel heard and seen, because I dig into that conversation a little bit that doesn’t necessarily seem totally relevant to their clinical progress, but as we talked about in the what clients want episode, you know, it’s, it’s talking to them about them as a whole person, and seeing them and recognizing, you know, the aspects of their life, and remembering the things they brought up and those kinds of things. But I think, to me, it’s, it’s something where I have to be cautious, because especially when I get into a creative space, or I get into a really focused place, I sometimes will find myself having to really do extra grounding and breathing in the session to stay present, because my client will say something that just sparks creativity for me, and I have to decide, is this creativity that’s for the client, or is this something I have to, like, jot down after session, and I need to, then, you know, kind of pull myself out of that idea in the moment.

Curt Widhalm 16:50
Part of this is really in the practice of being a therapist, and this is the practice that you do in between sessions. I can’t remember which professor that I had or might have even been at a conference that I learned this at some point. But when you’re in session, you’re not practicing therapy. You’re doing therapy. So the practice in between sessions is how you take care of yourself. It’s that mindfulness, that self monitoring, that you are describing of needing to be able to do in session, that you need to do outside of session as well. And this is a great tool of practicing your own mindfulness of a therapist, of being able to observe what’s going on and be able to piece out where that information needs to go. That there’s a lot of times where my clipboard in session has multiple pieces of paper, just out of habit, but I’ll jot down notes that are for the client on one piece of paper. And if there’s something that I’m unsure about whether it belongs in the session, I section off a piece of the paper just for maybe like and if it’s really in that maybe space I have to observe whether or not it’s something that needs to be brought up, and if it’s definitely something that doesn’t need to be brought up, I’m not then sitting in between the sessions afterwards of what was that really great idea that I had in session? So it’s being able to put that into your work. But it comes in between sessions of having this practice and this mindfulness, of really staying within yourself and being able to observe what’s coming up. So that way you have a conscious decision about it. And I think it’s that conscious piece that really moves it into: is this for the benefit of the client or not? But that brings up the challenge of now, am I trying to just ram something into the session that might not actually be there. And I think that that’s the next step of being able to understand where this might benefit the client or not.

Katie Vernoy 18:49
Yeah, yeah. I think for me, There’s definitely times when I will take an extra moment and be, gasp, you know, a minute or two late so I can do those grounding practices, because I think it’s better to be present and a minute late than just having to do quick grounding with the client in the room and not being able to pay attention for the first couple of minutes. And I think that’s, I think that’s really relevant, and I like that. I I feel like, for me, I don’t, I don’t take note. So I think it would, I would need to shift that practice. And I think sometimes I’ll, I have a notebook, and I could, you know, put some stuff down there. And I think my clients be like, What are you writing down? So I, you know, and I think with my clients, I could have that conversation and add some humor and say, Well, you just, you gave me a really great idea, so I’m gonna write it down, and we’ll see if it has to do with you or not. You know, I think my clients would would have fun with that, but I think it’s something where there are just times in our lives I think that it’s we’re much more distractible. And I don’t think that’s just me. I think there are times when in this session, as well as between sessions, we have to keep bringing ourself back in. And so I think, and we’ve had a couple of episodes on mindfulness and some practices on how to do that, so we’ll link to those in the show notes. But I think it’s something where I feel that when we, that so many of the therapists I know, especially those who are running with a productivity standard, or who are really overbooked with clients in their private practice have have a hard time with getting present really quickly, because it’s like they’re back to back, and there’s no space for these, these mindful moments. And so to me, I think it’s it’s figuring out, how do you create those even when your time is so limited? Because I think we have to do it no matter what.

Curt Widhalm 20:44
And this is the old Zen proverb of you should do 30 minutes of meditation every day, unless you’re too busy, and then you should do an hour. Because this is where for us as therapists, we we have spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about self care, avoiding burnout, dealing with burnout. And for us, self care really is not a luxury. Self Care is a discipline, and we need to be able to have these activities, whether it’s something physical, whether it’s something mindful, whether it’s a hobby, we we understand for our clients, this benefit of having other areas of our life, and we’re really horrible about actually implementing it for ourselves. So when we do find this really wonderful thing that’s in our lives, we want to share that process with people. It’s part of why marathon runners won’t shut up about running marathons. It’s why CrossFitters won’t shut up about CrossFit. It’s, you know, any number of like the really, you know, niche hobbies, where it’s people who are really excited about things want to share that experience of what they get out of it. And really in being able to turn that experience into a benefit for the client is more about the process than it is about the activity. And that’s where it really helps our clients a lot more, is being able to understand, like, here’s how you find happiness in a passion, and that’s, you know, being able to take in all of these very complex things, and being able to get it down to what its core value is, is that I, I found a passion by by doing something. I I got a relief, I got a I got over a problem. I thought about this solution doing this thing that got me out of my normal routine. And, you know, we can talk about that conceptually, but giving it a concrete activity that goes along with it makes a lot more digestible for clients of being able to say, Oh, this is, this is something where it’s grounded in something. It’s not just kind of this theoretical thing that I can’t grasp onto.

… 23:02
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Katie Vernoy 23:05
I think this is where the advice aspect can sometimes come in. Because I think when we talk about this is how I’ve done this, it can be kind of an advice and I think we have a whole episode where we debate advice, but I think for me, what I see is that I’m agreeing with you. I see like, we’re actually in the same room today. So it’s exciting. I get we actually get to look, look at each other and talk more conversationally, but I see you kind of getting ready to, like, respond back with some sort of an argument, but I’m agreeing with you. I’m just saying that therapists may be hesitant to talk about how they do things, because it can feel like it’s advice giving. You know, I think you need to be passionate and follow through on an activity and that will help you feel better about your life. The way I do that is running a marathon. You’re not suggesting that someone else runs a marathon. And I think that’s that’s where the nuance has to come in as far as the conversation. It’s figuring out, do they need that example, and if you give that example, can you do it in a way that clients still are making their own choices, or you’re helping them sort through what their marathon might be. I think that’s where it becomes I think a little bit hard, because I think if we get too much into, well, I remodel my house, or I do this, or I do that, I think if we don’t put in the caveat of, you know, I found for myself that this was something that was very good for me. What do you think would be good for you? What are the things that are going to get you inspired in the way that I feel like I’ve been inspired by this other thing? And I think that’s hard, but it becomes more conversational, more relational, which is, of course, what we want. So I think it’s just making sure that it’s not like, Hey, I’m doing this. So should you you. Sometimes in my personal life, talking to, you know, you mentioned CrossFit, but like talking to the CrossFit folks, everyone thinks, all the CrossFitters I know, think that that is exactly what I should be doing, and that’s the way my life should be. And I think we don’t want to get into that space as a therapist, by any stretch.

Curt Widhalm 25:18
Definitely. For anybody who listens to us, who does do CrossFit, we support your choices. Like we’re not putting down anybody’s hobbies in this episode and…

Katie Vernoy 25:31
And as a part and in your personal life, of course, you’re going to be excited and want people, want your friends and family members to join you in your passion, if it’s right for them. And you’re you know all of that. I’m not suggesting that that’s a bad thing necessarily, although, you know people in my life who are in CrossFit, I don’t know that’s where I’m going, so you’re barking up the wrong tree. But I think it’s something where as we just have to be very conscious as a therapist that the conversations we have in our personal life about these passions and these things that we’re focused on are very different than the conversations that we’re having in the therapy room. It seems obvious, but I think especially when we get very comfortable with our clients, we can become more the same person we are in the world as who we are in the room. And it’s just kind of figuring out those little, tiny details of this is this is okay in my personal life, but not in my therapy, in the therapy room.

Curt Widhalm 26:22
Trying to make sense of all of this, I think, is, you know, really, we’re giving kind of some examples of where it might be okay. It’s definitely not okay when we’re saying you must do this. And again, this comes back to being able to monitor in the sessions, what’s for the benefit of the client? And I think that as you go into this with intention, this actually really does come back to what I don’t think a lot of therapists do, which is really reviewing treatment goals before each session. And just kind of really reacting to whatever a client brings in each week and not really having a structure to the sessions to really continue to focus on the goals of clients, whether this is a formal treatment plan that you’ve created with clients, whether it’s being able to utilize things like the outcome review the ORS things from Scott Miller will include a link in the show notes to that form as well, as far as being able to get to good client content and what’s relevant to the client at the beginning of each session. But there’s an intentionality that goes in to a lot of this as well. And if you are a therapist who does fly by the seat of your pants and reacts things, I’ve been in that set, that portion of my development too, and it’s something where it does make you relatable and relational, but the part that for me in this growth to become more effective as therapist is bringing an intentionality to the relationship that does steer this back to client benefit. That I don’t talk about: Well, here’s the run that I did this morning, unless it’s relevant to what the client’s going through. If, again, I’m working with an athlete, it’s being able to talk about the difference between a super intense workout, you know, high intensity interval training, sort of workout, versus a long, slow duration, just general exercise run. There’s a different mindset that goes into each of those. And athletes get that, that it doesn’t need to be, you know, this morning, I ran 8000 meter, you know, intervals with this kind of a rest break in between, like, that’s getting into the nuance, it’s getting into the weeds, it’s way too much versus I was out on the long run the other day, I had some time to think, and kind of came up with this awareness. And I think that this awareness makes sense because of this, and, you know, this is something that’s relevant because of you having the same kind of experience that you’re bringing up right now. But I think that it’s that intentionality, that how it fits into the goals with each client, that whether early on in a relationship, it might be building that credibility, but later on in the relationship, it’s maybe a place for a shorthand of you know, here’s a shared experience that we have, here’s how it came up recently for me, that can be done in just a handful of seconds, but it brings it back to that client goal, that client processing part.

Katie Vernoy 29:27
I think there’s an honesty to it as well. I think there’s a piece of when I am so involved in something, or I’m actually physically changing because of what I’m doing, or I’ve got paint somewhere on my body, whatever it is, you know, I think there’s an honesty to bringing that in the room that feels more authentic than pretending something’s not wrong, and I think or not right. And I think being able to tie it to client goals is very critical. But I also think it’s it’s really important to tie to the client relationship as well. And I think, and I think that’s kind of what we’re saying, as long as you’ve got those in mind, the client relationship, that kind of stuff. I think it’s something where being able to be thoughtful, so you know, deliberate in in your practice, and being able to identify when these things are really becoming so present for you that you have to do extra mindfulness and and maybe your own therapy or your consultation about why these things keep coming up or distracting you from work in the room, if it is, I think it’s an excellent idea for us to be therapists who live in the world and have passions and do things, because I think it does richen the work. I know that when I’m having my more intense experiences, whether it’s this hike I was talking about, where there was a moment in this hike where it’s, it’s, you know, for anybody that’s in the Inland Empire, it’s Mount Baldy, and it’s this Devil’s backbone, and it is super steep. It is really, I mean, people die on it, which is scary for me, because I didn’t know that till after I’d done the hike. But I am, I am somebody that is very fearful of heights, you know, unprotected heights. And so I was able to talk to my clients, and I was thinking about them, because the the anxiety and the fear that I was feeling and how I got up that mountain. I was exhausted and I was scared. That to like for me, it was a new insight. It was a new understanding that I was able to bring back to my clients that I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t done that, if I spent all of my time either sleeping, eating and then going to my practice, I wouldn’t have that insight. I wouldn’t have that awareness, and both the level of awareness, the things I was able to bring back, as well as the fact that, hey, I was thinking about you outside of session, which I think is also extremely important to the therapeutic relationships. All of those things made it very meaningful for me to be able to share that with my clients and and being very thoughtful about which clients I shared it with, how I shared it, all of those things. I think it’s it’s brilliant. We just have to be cautious that if we get so involved in these things outside of therapy, that we don’t bring them in in a negative way.

Curt Widhalm 32:12
And I think one last point here is that, you know, as this is the 21st century, as social media does permeate our lives is a lot of our involvement in activities can end up on the internet that you also need to balance out what your hobbies might be with who your clients are. That…

Katie Vernoy 32:31
Yes.

Curt Widhalm 32:32
If you are really into, say, brewing beer or wine tasting or something, and you work in substance abuse, or you work with kids that knowing that that information might be out there and available to clients, and whether it’s things that you post on social media, whether it’s things that other social media places post about you, that it’s something for you to be aware of as far as clients bringing information into sessions. I mean, I have had clients in the past who know that I’ve been training for marathons, have checked out my times after races, brought it up said, Hey, saw that you did pretty well in this race. Or, you know, there’s always just kind of like a thing in the back of my mind that, you know, the internet never forgets your marathon times. But that some of this information is is available out there, and it’s something that, again, be intentional about what you do. So that way the impact on relationships is with the intention that you want it to have.

Katie Vernoy 33:39
What you were saying before is you work with athletes, and if you were working with other types of clients who may be triggered by your running or triggered by those things, that would be much more difficult. And I think in truth, I think this is one of the other reasons to have a niche or a specialization that really aligns with who you are. Because if you are doing things that are so far away, like brewing beer, and you’re working in treatment centers, like I think those types of things, it is hard to brand when you have to hide so much of your life, and you’re not going to be hidden from a lot, because social media is pervasive. So I think, I think, I think that’s the other piece, is, if there’s something that’s truly exciting and important to your life, make sure that your clients could deal with it if they found out about it.

Curt Widhalm 34:28
So we’ve made some references to some past episodes. We’re gonna include those in our show notes at mtsgpodcast.com. While you’re there, check out the call for speakers for our 2019 Therapy Reimagined conference. It’ll be here in the Los Angeles area, October, October 18 and 19th. We have a wide variety of topics that we’d like to see people come in with. But if you’ve got something really exciting, that is a way to address hashtag modern therapist problems. Please submit it, so we’ll put it to our committee, and we’ll be selecting speakers here pretty soon. Join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, and continue on with these conversations, and until next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy.

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Announcer 35:14
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