What Therapists Need to Know About Immigration: An interview with Andy Strait
Curt and Katie chat with Andy R. Strait, Esq., about immigration policies, mental health, and the role of therapists in supporting immigrant clients. They explore legal challenges, asylum cases, and the impact of fear-driven policies on mental health. Strait emphasizes the importance of legal representation, knowing one’s immigration status, and providing accurate resources. Therapists can help by offering pro bono evaluations, connecting clients with legal aid, and creating safe spaces for immigrant communities.
Click here to scroll to the podcast transcript.Transcript
(Show notes provided in collaboration with Otter.ai and ChatGPT.)
An Interview with Andrew R. Strait, Esq.
Andrew Strait is an attorney advocate known for his unwavering commitment to service, integrity, and leadership. Based in Hyattsville, Maryland, his legal and policy career has been marked by a dedication to improving the lives of others and contributing positively to various sectors. Andrew has maintained a reputation for integrity and a capacity to bring diverse stakeholders together throughout his career. His experience spans child welfare advocacy, family law expertise, government service, and migration management. This diverse professional journey reflects a commitment to academic rigor and the ability to facilitate cooperation among different perspectives.
Andrew’s qualifications led to his role as an advisor on the Biden-Harris Presidential Transition Team in 2020. He is admitted to the bar in Maryland and the U.S. Supreme Court, and his contributions have been significant in both government and nonprofit sectors, particularly in areas like homeland security, public health, and human services. His career started in Los Angeles, California, followed by a crucial role as a Presidential Management Fellow (PMF) during the Bush-Cheney Administration, where he contributed to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration’s international programs division. He furthered his expertise as a U.S. Senate fellow under the guidance of senior Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan.
Beyond his professional accomplishments, Andrew is engaged in various philanthropic pursuits. He serves as a sponsor of Midshipmen at the U.S. Naval Academy and an Election Judge for Anne Arundel County in Maryland. Additionally, he has served as Child Mentor within the Northern Virginia Aids Ministry and a Court-Appointed Advocate – service which reflects his dedication to improving individual lives. Andrew is an immigration and family law attorney, and is also an appointed panel Public Defender for the State of Maryland.
In this podcast episode, we talk about what therapists need to know about immigration
Immigration policies directly impact the mental health of both therapists and their clients. We asked Andy Strait, an immigration attorney and former public advocate, about the challenges immigrants face in the U.S. legal system, the role of therapists in supporting their clients, and practical steps therapists can take to provide assistance.
“Right now, there’s just a huge uneasiness, both in the migrant community and the American citizenry, that I think therapists are tapping into. And whether or not you’re a therapist dealing with a migrant or a refugee who is a newcomer and doesn’t know if they’re going to be arrested, doesn’t know if they should send their kid to school, or if they’re dealing with someone who is just, you know, watching the news and thinking, What’s going on in the world?” – Andy Strait, Esq.
What do therapists need to know about immigration policies?
- The lack of legal representation for immigrants and how this affects asylum outcomes.
- How the culture of fear surrounding immigration policies affects mental health.
- The importance of therapists providing accurate legal resources to clients.
- The racial profiling and shifting demographic focus of ICE operations.
- How therapists can help clients plan for potential deportation and protect their families.
How Therapists Can Support Clients Facing Immigration Challenges
- Refer clients to legal experts by connecting with organizations like the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) and the Survivors of Torture Network.
- Consider offering pro bono psychological evaluations for asylum cases, as expert testimony is often crucial.
- Help clients understand their rights and the importance of legal documentation.
- Provide safe spaces for immigrants to process their fears and mental health struggles.
- Be mindful of misinformation and educate clients using accurate, vetted sources.
“Don’t wait for ICE to come. Get in front of it, figure out where you are in your immigration case system, and figure out how you can gain immigration relief.” – Andy Strait, Esq.
Understanding the Realities of the Immigration System
- The asylum process is complex and overburdened, leaving many without proper representation.
- There is no right to an attorney for immigrants, making legal aid essential.
- Immigrants and their families need proactive strategies to prepare for potential enforcement actions.
- Therapists can play a critical role in reducing the stigma around seeking legal and mental health support.
Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:
We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!
American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA)
Survivors of Torture Network (Found with the help of Google AI):
The “Survivors of Torture Network” refers to various organizations and programs that provide services and advocacy for survivors of torture and their families, aiming to heal, rehabilitate, and empower them, while also raising awareness and working towards a world free from torture.
Here are some notable organizations and initiatives within the “Survivors of Torture Network”:
- Center for Victims of Torture (CVT): Focuses on healing the wounds of torture on individuals, their families, and communities, with a vision of a world without torture.
- Survivors of Torture International: Provides specialized care and support for torture survivors and their families, promoting healing and self-sufficiency.
- Program for Survivors of Torture (PSOT): Offers interdisciplinary and integrative services to help address the physical, psychological, social, and spiritual impact of torture and trauma.
- Survivors of Torture Services: A program within the Family Health Centers (FHC) Refugee Health department, providing holistic care for survivors of torture.
- International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims (IRCT): A global network of medical and legal professionals working to rebuild the lives of torture survivors through rehabilitation and advocating for their human rights.
- ACCESS’ Survivors of Torture Program: Assists refugees, asylum seekers, and war witnesses who have experienced torture, providing services like therapy, case management, and legal assistance.
- Freedom from Torture: A national network of people who have survived torture, using their voices to raise awareness and advocate for policy change.
- OMCT (World Organisation Against Torture): An international non-governmental organization that provides first assistance directly to women, men, and children who have survived torture.
- National Network of Solitary Survivors: A network dedicated to being a safe place for individuals and family members to share challenges and hopes, working to shift our communities away from a punishment paradigm and toward one of restoration and healing.
- International Rescue Committee (IRC): Works to support refugees, asylees, and asylum seekers, including torture survivors, by coordinating and integrating services across multiple sectors to ensure access to quality healthcare, legal protection, and other support.
- Heal Torture: Offers webinars and trainings for clinicians and organizations working with survivors of torture.
Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:
Therapists Conducting Asylum Evaluations, An interview with Marc Sadoff, LCSW
Therapy with an Accent, An interview with Namrata Rindani, LMFT
Bilingual Supervision: An Interview with Adriana Rodriguez, LMFT
Iran, The News, and Your Clients: An Interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD and Negeen Moussavian, AMFT
Invisible and Scrutinized, An Interview with Dr. Sheila Modir
Who we are:
Curt Widhalm, LMFT
Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: http://www.curtwidhalm.com
Katie Vernoy, LMFT
Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com
A Quick Note:
Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.
Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.
Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:
Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:
Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:
Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group
Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:
Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/
Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/
Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):
Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements).
… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)
Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.
Curt Widhalm 0:12
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast for therapists about the things that go on in our profession, the things that go on in our world. And earlier this year, Katie and I had talked about we are going to be making more efforts to provide more resources outside of our regularly scheduled content and in a changing political world for therapists who need to know more stuff, maybe even venturing into our name here a little bit about Survival Guide sorts of things. And we wanted to bring some of our friends, our experts, people that we know, and from the world of Katie’s background, we actually are very fortunate to be joined today by Andrew Strait. He’s an immigration attorney and has done some work on the other side of the government’s things before, and being able to help us learn more about what therapists should know about immigration and little bit of history about it, where things are now and what we should know. So thank you very much for joining us today.
Andy Strait 1:22
Thank you so much for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Katie Vernoy 1:27
We are so excited for this conversation, and thank you Andy for coming. I know that this is me calling on a favor from high school, so I’m so excited that you’re willing to join us. But before we jump into our conversation, I’ll ask you the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, who are you and what are you putting out into the world?
Andy Strait 1:45
Well, one I am a missing California, is what I’m missing. So I am a California transplant, now living in the Washington DC area, and I am surviving former government service. So I am a former public servant, which seems to be traumatizing experience in and of itself these days. And I served almost 20 years in federal law enforcement, and worked for US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and I was the public advocate for migrants under the Obama White House, and I served there, and I was in charge of the immigration custody system, and then served with the Biden transition team and the Biden campaign as a Homeland Security Advisor, and then worked in the nonprofit space, worked for the Lutheran Immigration Refugee Service, and over this latest last border crisis, I stood up the unaccompanied children’s centers on the border, as well as family centers on the hotels. And right now, I own and operate a migrant Law Center here in Maryland, and we actually have an office in Los Angeles where my brother practices, and so I’m putting out in the world help for migrant families and children.
Curt Widhalm 2:57
So just to clarify, you worked for ICE, but you were one of the good people who was actually doing what the law said that migrants should be doing, and helping facilitate people.
Andy Strait 3:08
I have. I don’t know if you can see it, but there’s an ICE badge behind me. That is my farewell plaque. And I’m the only child welfare lawyer to be in the ICE executive service. I was the nice guy from ICE.
Katie Vernoy 3:21
I love that.
Andy Strait 3:22
However, I was defunded by an act of Congress. As the public advocate I was meant to give migrants going through immigration enforcement proceedings a voice at the table. And Republicans thought that was a useless taxpayer expense, and that really started, this started in 2012, 2013 and that is when this whole immigration, well, immigration has always been a lightning rod, and we’ll get into that, I think, in this podcast. But that’s when it really started getting very vitriolic, and that is during the Obama administration, when you try to pursue conference immigration reform. That’s when my position was quickly abolished. I stayed at ICE, but that position that was tried to be reach across the aisle and bring in the ability to be humane in our enforcement practices. Unfortunately, that was a collateral damage position and but I still remained at the agency, and we tried to soften the way we did things. You know, Obama did go down as the number one person who arrested more migrants, who detained more and deported more, but he did so with due process and the rule of law, and that’s something we’re missing right now.
Katie Vernoy 4:38
So, to step back a little bit, I, one of the questions that we start with is often, what are therapists getting wrong? I don’t know that we have an equivalent, but high level before we get into the details. What do therapists really need to know about immigration right now?
Andy Strait 4:55
Well, I think therapists, you know, I deal actually, a lot with therapists in my practice, because in my asylum cases, I often have to call upon therapists to give testimony, an expert opinion in these asylum cases. They actually have to give advice and an expert analysis and reports about what the trauma they experienced in their country of origin, especially if they’ve been a victim of a crime or they’ve been a victim of torture or abuse. But in general, there’s it’s more basic than that. Right now, what people need to be aware of is there’s just a culture of premeditated fear that this current administration is putting in out there and has been putting out there since the current president has been running for office ever since he came down on a golden escalator in 2016. And what you’ll hear from me is this arc of a person seeking high office and attaining high office by fear mongering or seeking to cast aside and fear of the other is actually not a new theme in world politics. You’ve seen this time and time again, fear of the other, you know, the newcomer taking your job, someone else being in charge of your economic downfall, that happens all the time, and it just so happened that it coincided with, you know, some economic crisis the United States. And so, you know, right now, there’s just a huge uneasiness, both in the migrant community and the American citizenry, that I think therapists are tapping into. And whether or not you’re a therapist dealing with a migrant or a refugee who is a newcomer and doesn’t know if they’re going to be arrested, doesn’t know if they should send their kid to school, or if they’re dealing with someone who is just, you know, watching the news and thinking, What’s going on in the world? You know, therapists have to deal with the fact that we live in a 24 hour news cycle, whether or not they’re seeing immigration news and thinking, oh my gosh, is that person going to a migrant gonna cause me harm? Or is it the migrant thinking I’m gonna be arrested? Therapists are there to ease those issues, and they kind of need to know the truth, and it’s hard to find the truth these days.
… 7:20
(Advertisement Break)
Curt Widhalm 7:22
So some of the truth depends on who you talk to. So as you’re kind of already outlining here, I think for many of us millennials, the first example that we were given, as far as this exists, is 9-11 and kind of the post 9-11 response to particularly people from the Middle East, in the Arab world. I’m sure in people who have gotten more than basic public education around the history, you can go back and look at various groups throughout the history of whether it be Mexicans, whether it be Chinese, whether it be Irish, anybody else’s. This is part of being American also is very much just having some of the immigration aspects there. I’d like to jump this conversation to what I think is kind of in some of the zeitgeist here, which is talking about those who are here legally and those who are not here legally or undocumented. And really, what ICE actually does in some of this work. Are, is ice really chasing after everybody who just has the wrong skin tone.
Andy Strait 8:36
Well, in a certain extent, there is somewhat a racial profile in the sense that statistically, yes, you know, there can be folks that are here illegally from countries of origin that have people who might be brown skin tone, but the vast majority of what ICE is doing right now is looking at people who have final orders of removal that they haven’t gone after before. So these people have been ordered removed, and they have a list, and they’re looking at final addresses that they know they where they were, and they’re knocking on doors, and they’re trying to see if they’re home, and if they’re there, they’re picking them up, and if there’s other people in the house or in the street, they’re picking those people up. So, let’s just say they have in each of these field offices, and there’s 24 of them have target quotas, and so they are trying to get these quotas and these targets, and for the first time in a long time, they are allowed to arrest people that are just here illegally without having a final order or without having a criminal conviction. And before there was this prioritization, there was people that were here illegally but also committed a crime. There were people who illegally and again, they didn’t fail to report for their deportation order. And so with folks that were here illegally, yes, it was people who were predominantly from Central and South America. That’s shifting, actually, though. For the first time, two years ago, we have been non majority, non Central American and South American, meaning, for the last two years, more folks have been coming from other places across the globe than Central and South America; China, India, other places. And that’s because, and this is where you have to give, not to say that the Trump administration some credit. But the the southern border is a very porous place. And so that southern border, it’s the largest land mass in the an entire globe, really, that allows people to kind of cross it. And so it is important to protect it. And so people are using that southern land border to come across into the United States. It is a very prosperous first world country, the most prosperous first world country, obviously, next to a country that, obviously Mexico, that can be frequented by people who want to go through it and transit it. And so it does have that push pull factor that you’ve heard and so there are a lot of people that are going through the border that can be from all across the globe, predominantly from central South America, historically, but that’s changing. And so traditionally, ICE has been focusing on the people that are from Central and South America, do have immigration violations, do have criminal histories. But right now, they’re also targeting people that happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Katie Vernoy 11:46
Is the border really not secure?
Andy Strait 11:48
The border is secure. So, what had happened in the Biden administration was a, unfortunately, a missed opportunity to fix something very, very broken. So for the first time in the nation’s history, during the Trump administration, thanks to the pandemic, the Trump administration closed the nation’s border due to title 42: a public health emergency. And that shut off the US border to asylum seekers. Our asylum system is broken. When people come to this country and seek asylum protection, the vast majority will not actually get asylum granted to them. You know, a lot of people think asylum is: I had a bad lot in my country. I don’t have academic opportunity. I had criminal gangs or had violence. That could explain Baltimore. I mean, it’s it’s not necessarily what it is. You, in asylum law, you have to have a particularized social group and a state action. Venezuela is a good example of this, Nicolas Maduro is persecuting me. I protested against Nicolas Maduro. He threw my family in jail. It is not that I don’t have access to opportunities in this in this rural village in Honduras, and, you know, I I need to do this. So and so a lot of people would have what happened after the border was completely closed for some time is there’s this huge buildup of people wanting to cross the border. And so hundreds of 1000s, millions actually crossed during the Biden administration, and they were so overwhelmed that they gave what was called notices to report. They just gave these pieces of paper and they said, Hey, go to ICE field offices and check in and get your charging documents, basically your court orders. And believe it or not, most people did because they thought they had access to asylum. But the system got overwhelmed, and the politics took over, and Trump and the Republican said, our borders out of control? People are pouring in. Well, they were pouring in. They lawfully did what the immigration authorities told them to do, but the system couldn’t handle it. And when those people do end up going to court, and I represent a lot of them, if they have attorneys, about 50% may get asylum. If they don’t have attorneys and statistically, 25 to 30% won’t. But the vast majority will not. And guess what? There’s over a million people in the immigration court system. There’s over 10 million people not. Guess how many judges? 700.
Katie Vernoy 14:31
Wow.
Andy Strait 14:32
700 and Trump just fired about 30 of them. And so you know, when you have 700 judges for 1 million cases, you know how long it takes? People get citizen children, people get houses, people get jobs. And so when you go as a nice officer and you go to effectuate that order of removal, you’re breaking apart a fabric of American society. When these people go and report to communities they, here’s the other thing. This is something that is something that has been true since day one of our founding and this is also the misnomer that is terrible politics: by and large, the immigration community is less has less criminal propensity than the US population by almost 75%. By the time they cross the border, and within 10 days of getting to the city of destination, they have the job, they have within 30 days a tax ID number to pay taxes, and they’re employed, and they’re working in a job, they’re paying taxes, and they’re ingrained and doing good work. So they’re not causing any harm. They’re taking jobs that we need to be taked. They need to be done. So it is really an economic engine that we’ve always needed to have done. And if you look at the history of the country, what we’ve done, and this is, you know, getting into kind of macro is, as you know, we formed the country in 1776 and there was all this land, and we first, we brought over the Irish and the Scots, and then the Germans. And we’re like, oh, manifest destiny. Okay, you guys go out and plow the West. And they’re like, oh, gosh, it’s really rugged out there. Chinese labor. You go do that. And then eventually, Jim Crow, slavery, African Americans, and then immigrant labor. And immigrant labor has replaced it ever since, and that hasn’t stopped. And the US American economy can’t let it stop. And the everyone knows it, the business community knows it, the Republicans know it. And so it’s just a point of how much do you need to do the fear mongering to get elected, versus how much do you need to do it to run an economy? And that’s that push and pull we’re doing it right now.
Curt Widhalm 16:59
I want to ask you’re talking about the immigration process and the asylum process for those who have attorneys have a much higher success rate. What is that process? How complicated is that?
Andy Strait 17:16
Well, one of the things that is very sad to me is that the immigration process is a civil process that for which there is no right to counsel. So unlike the process for criminal proceedings, where you have the right to an attorney, if you are zero months old or 100 years old, you do not have access to attorneys, so I represent children and I represent the elderly. And as complicated as it is, the IMA the immigration, Immigration Nationality Act and all its addendums, 1000s of pages, it’s very, very complicated, statute upon statute, modification on modification, case law after case law. It’s intense, and there is no way a foreign born person who doesn’t speak English, who may have a education equivalence of fourth grade in the US could represent themselves pro se or pro per; Latin for by themselves. It’s just not doable. You know, I was part of a team that said everyone should have a lawyer. Lawyers make the system run better. Lawyers aren’t going to ruck it up. They’re going to make it run better. More judges will make it run better for. Bbut for some reason, no one wants to fund more of us. I don’t know why. I know what people don’t like us lawyers. But it would do it a much fairer process. And so now, if you again, if you don’t have a lawyer, your chances of staying in the country greatly diminish. If you don’t have a lawyer, you likely won’t show up for your hearing, because, guess what, you don’t likely keep your, you know, your address up to date. And so that’s that’s an issue. And so what happens if you don’t keep your address up to date is they send you a notice to the address you don’t have, on file, and then when you show up, they go, Angela Smith. Angela Smith, oh, Angela Smith, not here. And so then you get an order called in absentia. So you’re you’re put in, uh, given removal order. But guess what? ICE then find your real address when they go knock on your door to deport you. So it’s…
Katie Vernoy 19:36
Very interesting, how convenient.
Andy Strait 19:39
Very convenient, very convenient. Yes indeed.
Katie Vernoy 19:43
So, to support the therapists who are listening to this as a kind of the Survival Guide. If we have some clients that come in and they are wanting to get support in navigating the immigration process, what can that look like? Obviously, it’s different from state to state, we have listeners in all 50 states, so I’m sure that some of this is your you’ll need to look those things up. But, but what can how can therapists advise their clients to get the support they need to to navigate this process?
Andy Strait 20:15
Immigration attorneys can be expensive, and they can also be pro bono. The problem with the assault on justice that has occurred with this administration is the federal grants and the federal programs that expanded access to justice were killed within the last 30 days by the Trump administration. So the largest was the Catholic Legal Immigration Network that had all 50 states covered. It also had guaranteed right to access to children. So over the last years, there was a lot of legal advocacy for at least kids who came over the border unaccompanied, for them to least have lawyers, which I think is kind of the bare minimum; that unfortunately, just this last week, was taken off the table. The reason is to make it so hard that people self deport, which does not happen. It just does not happen. It’s just it’s not happened in the history of our country, people think it will. But and so what has happened in my community, I can tell you, is that centers of community gathering, churches and other places have come together and fundraised to pay, you know, community lawyers like myself the ability to represent these clients. We’re a little unique at the Law Center that I run, because when I started the Law Center about a year and a half ago, I wanted the chance to kind of do things a little differently, and I wanted to ensure that money wasn’t an obstacle. So few things. We made it flat fee, we made it a payment plan, and we made sure non-banked clients had access. So it’s a pain in the butt for me, but I take cash and we do Zelle with our bank. We allow, we work with our bank Chase to, you know, allow Zelle payments. My bookkeeper hates it, but it allows us to do it. The other thing is, we do free screenings. We have access to the immigration system. We look up they, everyone has an alien number, an A number. It’s like a social security number. And we can immediately see where they are in the system, and we can let them know. Hey, are you at risk? Do you have a final order of deportation? Because if you do, and you weren’t aware of it, you may be on this target list for enforcement action, and that’s how we need to let them know right away. Hey, we need to make sure we file something right away. And and people may have what we call immigration relief right at their disposal. Do they have a US citizen child? Do they have a citizen spouse? What is their asylum claim? Can we file something? And so it’s it’s important. The other thing that we’re telling people is to make a plan if they have children. If they should be go back to the country of origin. What’s going to happen to their US, citizen kids? Guardianship, power of attorney, what’s the education plan? All these things that have to happen. Those are very, very important, these other kind of collateral issues that need to be tended to. I unfortunately had to do an adoption for a three month old baby. Her mom was deported about six weeks ago, four weeks ago, literally, the third day of the Trump administration and the adoption we’re working on right now. Unfortunately, one of the adoptive, prospective adoptive parents has an immigration issue herself, and so we’ve got to fix that out. So it’s, it’s, it’s going to be a tough four years. Unfortunately, I don’t know if it’s going to be longer than that, because, unlike the last Trump 1, I call it, I don’t know if this is, if this now represents a new framework for the United States, and that’s what scares me the most. As what does this mean for us as a country? Because the movement of people is a thing the world’s experience. You know, we’re not alone in dealing with political parties that are pushing back against migrants coming to the country and right wing parties and all this other stuff. Everyone in the globe is experiencing this. So it’s how we’re going to deal with this as a country. And we’ve got to figure out who we are. We got to figure out how to talk to the other party. We need to figure out why messages doesn’t resonate, and we’ve got to figure out unity. We can’t we, we can’t be It can’t be us versus them. We’ve got to figure out how we can come together. That’s that’s that’s gotta big part of it. And so therapists in kind of, what I figured you all do is kind of bridge divides. You guys are communication builders, and if anything, you guys are going to be what’s necessary for us to heal us, this country. But also how we’re going to be able to speak to each other, because we’re not going to get through this either the next four years or the next generation without figuring out how to talk to one another.
… 25:11
(Advertisement Break)
Curt Widhalm 25:09
What rights do migrants have? And I know that there’s a variety of different levels to this, some of the discussions that have been going around in the mental health community here in Los Angeles are not only for the undocumented workers, but also their family members, who might be the people that they’re married to, who might be naturalized themselves, who might have the birthright citizenship children between parents like this. I know many organizations are handing out things like red cards in order to inform people in their rights. But can you help us understand a little bit more, what rights do people have when it comes to being here, interacting with ICE, and what can they do about it?
Andy Strait 25:57
Yeah, I’ve seen the red cards. You know, when I was at ICE, you know, I I heard from folks that explained to me the Know Your Rights. You know, you really need the red cards and the Know Your Rights to work if the ICE officers are going to abide by the Know Your Rights themselves. You know first ICE warrants are civil warrants, meaning that when they knock on the door, or if you’re in a confined space, you need to let them in, you have to you have to give them permission or consent. It’s not a criminal warrant. Unfortunately, even if the migrant knows that and says, I know my rights. I know I have to let you in. All too often, there is not that understanding. ICE officers don’t wear body cameras. And so you may find the situation where there’s going to be a difference of opinion on whether or not there was the ability to state that: was there a consensual ability to get into the residence or the car? Unlike criminal procedure, there’s no way to really contest the entry, so it’s almost moot, and so I know it makes people feel better about the Know Your Rights. What I say is know your status and find a lawyer and have your documents on you. So I’m doing a presentation next week to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce here in Maryland. And I know they want to do Know Your Rights and all this other stuff, but I just don’t think that’s as powerful as knowing your status and you know knowing, having your documents and who to call. Because if people aren’t going to respect that rule of law, it’s not gonna be worth anything, and there’s no way to challenge it. And at the end of the day, if they have that final order, they’re gonna find a way to get you one way or the other. What you need to do is get in front of it. And you get in front of it by going to an immigration lawyer, the one you trust, and just figuring out what your status is, you got to figure out your status is. You got to figure out where you are on the system. And that’s a very, very important so go to a legal organization, go to an immigration attorney, just figure out where you are. So that’s one of the rights, the other big right that you have, especially if you’re an undocumented child, is you have a right to education irrespective of documentation status. The way that’s playing out right now, unfortunately, is, you know, ICE has made it known that sensitive locations are are on the table for enforcement actions. So ICE has said they’ll go to schools, they’ll go to churches to pick up their targets. They won’t do that usually, because that’s actually bad for the officers, but they will say it because it creates fear. So that’s why kids don’t go to school sometimes, and that’s why parents are scared.
Katie Vernoy 29:16
So the Know You’re Right stuff it sounds like is you’re saying it’s really not very helpful, because ICE officers aren’t really respecting that, and so keeping yourself out of their way, and then finding out your status, making sure that you have representation if you need it, and having your documentation on you, that’s kind of the best that you can do. And figuring out how do you continue to live your life and potentially have your kids get school and all those types of things while there’s so much uncertainty. I mean, it seems really, really scary. Is, is there any other advice that you have that that we can share with with clients?
Andy Strait 29:54
Well, you got to be proactive, not reactive. Don’t wait for ICE to come. You. Get in front of it, figure out where you are in your immigration case system, and figure out how you can gain immigration relief. And, you know, get with a lawyer and figure out, don’t be afraid of ICE checking on the door. Know what your know what your case is. Know what your chances are. All too often, people ignore it. I can’t tell you how many clients have come through my door in the last two weeks who have been here 10-15, years and just ignored it, and now they’re coming through it. Don’t ignore it anymore. Don’t ignore it anymore. You’ve got to figure it out. And guess what? About 60% of the time I find a way for them to get to stay here. So it’s possible. You just can’t ignore it anymore. You just can’t let it, just can’t let it lie to dormant. You got to get in front of it. Don’t be reactive. Don’t have a little red card. You got to pound the pavement. You got to go talk to somebody. You got to talk to an expert. You got to find a lawyer. You got to get a community member. You got to figure out how to pay for it. You’ve got to do the work. It’s not just it’s not as simple as don’t come in the door. I know my rights. You got to do something with your rights. It’s no longer it’s not a passive statement. It’s an active statement. This is a foot battle, and you’ve got to take action.
Curt Widhalm 31:13
Are there places, centralized places, that you would recommend therapists go to to continue to stay up on vetted resources and ongoing conversation around this.
Andy Strait 31:26
Yes, the American Immigration Lawyers Association, or AILA is a great resource. So it’s ala.org is a great resource. There’s the Survivors of Tortures Network, and so that’s a very good resource. You know, I know that there’s often a call for therapists, potentially, if they can do pro bono, because the evaluations for the asylum, evaluations for do the just to give the psychological evaluations that could be around, you know, $1,000 sometimes from a therapist, you can give that pro bono. I mean, you can contribute too, and I can certainly pass that information along, you know, because we need experts, and depending on your credentials, you can, you can weigh in. You’d have to come testify in immigration court, but you can do your part and so, and guess what, everything has to go to trial under Trump. There’s no, I mean, so evidence has to be given. So you, you know, have to support that this person has this real emotional reaction. They have experienced trauma. They do fear that they would be tortured and harmed if they return to their country of origin. And so an expert has to testify to that, that they, under closed session, felt that way. And so there’s, there’s reasons for you, like experts, to do that. So that’s definitely something you guys can do to contribute to that. And offer migrants free access to mental health. Migrants, in themselves, don’t think mental health is something that it’s a stigma to get access to mental health still, and so, you know, it’s not something, you know, they have very little time. They’re working two to three jobs, you know, pounding they’re just trying to pay for lawyers. And so if you know, potentially having a group of people going to the same thing, you know, there’s lots of ways that you can think creatively, with your resources and your skills to do, to do some help.
Katie Vernoy 33:17
Before we close up. Is there anything else that you want to make sure that we cover here, for our for our therapist audience?
Andy Strait 33:23
Only that this is just the start of it. That’s day 30. Today. Today is day 30. And I’ve been telling my staff and my team is that I’m a big student of history. And, you know, sometimes we read these history books. I’m like, God, how did they go through that? And, you know, sometimes you get to read history and sometimes you get to live through it. And I think we’re all realizing we’re living through history right now. And we did that with the pandemic, and we didn’t know how we were going to do this. But we’re at an inflection point of who we are as a country. And the one thing I will leave you is when I talk to someone from Venezuela, or from Cuba, or from an African country that’s been ruled by a dictator, and I ask about their country; when they talk about the spirit of their country, it’s not the despot or the dictator, it’s the it’s the country, it’s the culture. So we’re not Trump, we’re not the people in power. America is not just these wackadoos. So remember that. Remember we’re we’re more than that, and but we have to work at it, and we can’t be complacent. And and America is an action, and my clients stand for that. They work day in and day out, and do what I fee America is all about. And so the rest of us, the citizenry, and I’m, I’m definitely putting, you know, what I think, into action, but the rest of us need to do the same as; what we can’t just be armchair liberals, if we’re that, we can’t just be armchair progressives, if we’re that. You’ve got to do something about it. And and I think it’s more than just voting nowadays. And guess what? I don’t think some of us did that so. But remember that, that we are more than just, you know, the nation is more than just potentially, who’s in power. And seeing the spirit of people who have come from these countries that have had dictators and civil wars and strife. They still feel very proud to be Venezuelan, very proud to be Cuban, very proud to be, you know, from the different countries. And I’m still proud to be an American. I’m just not happy with where we are, and I’m I’m happy to be part of that change and and happy to do something about it.
Curt Widhalm 36:01
Where can people find out more information about you and your practice,
Andy Strait 36:06
So they can go to marigoldlawcenter.com, and we are a law firm that is headquartered in both in downtown Los Angeles, where my younger brother Anchorstar office, and also here in Maryland, in Hyattsville, which is right outside the District of Columbia. And we chose marigold because it is a flower that is a symbolic of family preservation and unity. And so, you know. So that’s all we’re about. And so if you need help, please give us a call. Free consultations. We also have a big collaboration with health providers to give you free health screenings. We have providers that to do adult literacy programs, if you have to take the naturalization test, we also do lots of petitions for citizenship. We help you with the naturalization tests. One of my favorite, the good part of this job, too, is seeing new citizens born every month. You know, I get to go and, you know, get to go to cool places like Fort McHenry or Mount Vernon. And, you know, see, people take the Oath of Citizenship, and I it’s fun, and so that that’s the good part of it. It’s not, it’s not all very bad injury. And so yeah, MarigoldLawCenter.com and we’re happy to help folks. And my office speaks fluent, bilingual Spanish, and we also have aid with interpreter line for 50 other languages if you need it.
Curt Widhalm 37:49
And we will happily include links to Andy’s practice in our shout outs over at mtsgpodcast.com. Make sure that you follow us on our social media. Join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, to continue on with these conversations. And until next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and Andy Strait.
… 38:07
(Advertisement Break)
Announcer 38:09
Thank you for listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter, and please don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss any of our episodes.
SPEAK YOUR MIND