Photo ID: A person wearing graduate robes with text overlay

I Just Graduated, Now What? – Career Advice for New Mental Health Clinicians

Curt and Katie discuss how clinicians can decide what types of jobs to pursue when they first graduate from their clinical program. We look at whether you should go into a community mental health organization or a private practice. We also dig into what you might want to consider when making these choices and looking for these jobs. Curt and Katie share their own perspective and experiences to help you consider many different options at this stage in your career.

Transcript

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In this podcast episode we talk about a new therapist’s career path

We received a listener email asking advice for how to approach getting their first job after graduating. We decided to answer that listener and to address the question of how to start your career more broadly.

Should you go into a community mental health organization or private practice?

“I’m of the philosophy that, especially if where you imagine yourself being is in private practice at some point, my recommendation is start doing that as soon as reasonably possible” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT

  • Considerations related to longer term goals
  • Practical and logistical factors related to compensation, benefits, and time
  • Clinical training and opportunities

What to consider when looking to join a group private practice

“When you are looking for a group practice, don’t look for something that’s just a duplication of a community mental health organization… there is a discernment that needs to happen to identify: is this actually preparing you for the private practice that you want to have in five years? Or is it a mill, where you’re churning through insurance clients that don’t align or… you’re working for a fee that you wouldn’t be able to sustain?” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

  • Caseload and pay expectations
  • Training and supervision opportunities
  • What you are willing to do to obtain your own clients
  • Whether you will stay at an agency while building a caseload

What are the job options for therapists when they graduate?

  • The importance of informational interviews to understand the options
  • The benefits (and detriments) to different types of work settings
  • Community mental health versus private practice
  • Moving around and getting different experiences versus starting in a niche
  • Identifying what is right for you

Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide:

Thrizer

Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client’s insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don’t need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee!

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Simplified SEO Consulting

Simplified SEO Consulting is completely focused on helping mental health professionals get their websites to show up on Google. They offer trainings and small group intensives to teach you how to optimize your own website. Their next small group intensive is open for enrollment now and starts in August. Take the first step to reaching more ideal clients with their next Small Group SEO Intensive. You don’t have to be tech savvy to learn SEO!

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Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Getting a J-O-B as a Therapist

Interview Strategies for Therapists

The Burnout System

Why Therapists Quit

How to Overcome Impostor Syndrome to Leave Your Agency Job: An interview with Patrick Casale

Building Hope for the Next Generation of Therapists: An interview with Robin Andersen

Who we are:

Picture of Curt Widhalm, LMFT, co-host of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast; a nice young man with a glorious beard.Curt Widhalm, LMFT

Curt Widhalm is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is a Board Member at Large for the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, a Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, Adjunct Faculty at Pepperdine University, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more about Curt at http://www.curtwidhalm.com.

Picture of Katie Vernoy, LMFT, co-host of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcastKatie Vernoy, LMFT

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

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Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:

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Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:

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Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):

Curt Widhalm 0:00
This episode of The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide is brought to you by Thrizer.

Katie Vernoy 0:03
Thrizer is a modern billing platform for private pay therapists. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer you can potentially save them hundreds every month with no extra work on your end. The best part is you don’t have to give up your rates they charge a standard 3% processing fee.

Curt Widhalm 0:24
Listen at the end of the episode for more information on a special offer from Thrizer.

Katie Vernoy 0:29
This episode is also brought to you by Simplified SEO Consulting.

Curt Widhalm 0:33
Simplified SEO Consulting is completely focused on helping mental health professionals get their websites to show up on Google. They offer trainings and small group intensives to teach you how to optimize your own website. Their next small group intensive is open for enrollment now and starts in August. Take the first step to reaching more ideal clients with their next small group SEO intensive.

Katie Vernoy 0:56
You don’t have to be tech savvy to learn SEO. Listen at the end of the episode. For more information on Simplified SEO.

Announcer 1:03
You’re listening to The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.

Curt Widhalm 1:18
Welcome back modern therapists. This is The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm, with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast for therapists about the things that we do, how we look at our profession, and all that kind of stuff. And we are responding to a listener email today. We have this from Jake. Hi, Curt and Katie, I very much enjoyed listening to your podcast, I find that I aligned with many of the ways you conceptualize and approach counseling. I wanted to ask about some content I’ve been looking for, but have not yet found a lot of transitioning from graduate to becoming pre licensed. I’m set to graduate this summer and want to hit the ground running. I myself work for an organization that provides in home services and can access supervision, but I am dreading being locked in for several more years to accomplish this. I am so ready and eager to move to outpatient counseling and have been researching options for starting a practice being pre-licensed and self pay. I am concerned about losing a steady income and the health insurance that I provide for my family. But I feel so very unfulfilled in what I’m currently doing. Productivity over quality, and I want to find any possible options I can. In my area, I know that I can bring a unique and needed approach for my community that is riddled with CBT practices. Just want to be able to weigh practicality with my desire. Any and all help is appreciated. Katie, we’ve had this debate throughout our entire relationship.

Katie Vernoy 2:54
Yeah, that’s true

Curt Widhalm 2:56
About what people should be doing and coming out of grad school and volley to you.

Katie Vernoy 3:06
Okay, so I think what we’re deciding to do here is we’re gonna first answer Jake specifically. And then for those of you who have a different situation than Jake, we will revisit our debate on what all people should do or what they might consider doing. And so I’ll start with Jake. Hi, Jake. Thanks for reaching out to the show. So what I’m what I’m hearing from Jake, is that the desire is to go into a private practice, a self pay private practice, that is the long term goal. And I think there’s the hesitations and this is where I think a lot of folks end up in community mental health. That hesitation is that there is a…

Curt Widhalm 3:48
A soul sucking job.

Katie Vernoy 3:49
No, no, no, that’s that’s not the hesitation, that’s a reason to want to leave. The hesitation is there’s not the financial stability, potentially benefits, those types of things that you can get from agencies or organizations like that. And so my advice to Jake is to find a group practice that would have really solid client base, align clinically, if possible, good supervision, one that has a reputation in the community, has a supervisor that would support Jake’s desired for their own practice or something like that. I think it’s something where it’s clear to me if someone wants to do they know they want to do group practice from the from the jump, that they probably want to start doing that. But there’s a lot of pitfalls to starting in a in a group practice or in a private practice as a pre-licensed or provisionally licensed person, if you don’t know what you’re looking for, because there’s a lot of private practices and I’ve even talked and worked with folks on recruiting around really low paid, not a real guarantee of clients and that kind of stuff. And so there are things to worry about in private practice when you’re not in your own practice or even when you are, but not when you’re in your own practice, you have to know what you’re looking for. But the private practice route is potentially possible. And I’m throwing up a little bit in my mouth, because I, I oftentimes think that people might find a little bit more of what they need going into a larger organization, although a lot of folks might be throwing things at their listening device for this look. But that is for the debate later, right now for Jake, it sounds like Jake knows what they’re wanting to do. And we’ll be focusing in on private practice.

Curt Widhalm 5:44
I’m of the philosophy that, especially if where you imagine yourself being is in private practice, at some point, my recommendation is start doing that as soon as reasonably possible. This does not have to be an entire, like, Alright, I’m just diving in, not taking any precautions whatsoever. This does need to be done intelligently. That, you know, for a lot of the things that Jake is talking about here, having a good sense of how long can I weather this kind of a monetary balance, like if I do have bills that need to be paid, if I have a roof that I need over my head, health insurance, need to provide for a family, stop being chased by Navient, and Sallie Mae for my student loans. If any of those things apply to you know, know the financial situation that you’re walking into. Because this is not something where it’s just like, you must absolutely just work in an agency or you should totally jump into private practice. But I’m of the philosophy that if you are going into private practice, if that is something that you have gone through grad school, your like private practice is ultimately where I’m going to end up being, start doing it as soon as possible. That if it’s joining a group practice, if it’s starting with one or two clients, in addition to whatever your crappy agency job is, that does pay all of those bills, it’s slowly building out your private practice, one of the wonderful things of being in private practice is if you’re good at it, and especially as Jake’s aligning here of, you know, being self pay at not necessarily tied to insurance or some third party payer, once you help clients, they tend to come back when they need help again in the future. And so that is something that you cannot buy, it’s not some sort of continuing education workshop where it’s like, you’re able to check off like, I have this evidence based skill now. The one thing that really benefits you in this direction is you can’t buy time. And so the sooner that you start seeing clients, the sooner that you’re going to start getting clients, and the sooner that they’re going to be helped and potentially come back someday. Because a lot of times what happens in practice, is, you’re gonna get some clients who come in who want very short term 12-20 session therapy, and you’re gonna get clients who want to be your client forever. And what happens is, you know, you get 20 clients, and 17 of them fall into that former category of like, I want short term therapy, then you’ve got three who are there forever with you. And then you’ve got your next group that funnels through and you pick up two or three more, and these are the things that being in practice longer ends up affording you. The tipping point that we’re talking about here, Jake, is, when do you completely leave agency work once you’ve started accumulating those kinds of clients? Whether it’s a small group practice, that’s a little bit slower pace, whether it’s a larger group practice that starts, you know, feeding you all of the support that Katie described, these are some of the decisions that I would suggest really sitting down and looking at, where is that balance in my personal monetary situation at this moment?

Katie Vernoy 9:11
The thing I want to just reiterate is, when you look for a group practice, make sure you’re not finding a group practice that’s just a duplication of a community mental health organization. Because some do that there’s low pay, you have high billing rates, because they’re taking insurance or they’re doing a lower fee than they can really afford. And so you end up working for crappier rates, and it’s kind of like a private practice, but it’s really more like an agency. So you want to find one that’s really positive, that supports the clinicians and Curt, I have to hand it to you, you have a group practice like that. I I’ve met all I think, no, not all most of your clinicians, and they’re all happy. They’re they’re seeing clients, they’re full, they’re getting good training, they’re getting supervision from you. And so to me, like when I see practices that work I know that it’s hopeful. But I’ve also seen a lot of you know, I did recruiting for pre-licensed folks for a long time. And I’ve heard a lot of stories for folks that it was, I was barely making $20 an hour, and I only had two or three clients a week. And so it’s something where the group practice owner hasn’t figured it out. So there’s episodes that we have on finding a job and interviewing. So I’ll leave that there. And I’ll put those things in the show notes. But I think it’s something where there is a discernment that needs to happen to identify, Is this actually preparing you for the private practice that you want to have in five years? Or is it a mill, where you’re turning through insurance clients that don’t align? Or you’re in a space where you’re working for a fee that you wouldn’t be able to sustain in your own practice? Because you can be in a tough spot either way? Would you agree with that?

Curt Widhalm 10:52
Yes, and I’ll maybe not throw quite so much caution as Katie is here in that don’t, don’t let perfect be the opposite of good in this either. Katie and I are both in the Los Angeles area where there’s roughly 8 million therapists per building. So there’s a lot of opportunities here for pre-licensed people to theoretically join practices. If you’re motivated enough to attract the kinds of clients to yourself, that might go a little bit beyond just what the agency is providing, that’s even doing yourself even more favors in the long run, as far as you know, really being able to put yourself out there. And if that’s the case, you know, it might be a practice that isn’t quite, you know, throwing every single referral, it’s not like you’re walking in and getting 20 clients just right off the top. But those are, then again, through all of the things that you’ve probably heard through many of our other episodes, those are the clients who are probably going to stick with you even more. And once you do get licensed and you’re able to start running your own practice are likely going to be the ones that follow you anyway. These are really where it’s what you’re weighing is short term, get through my licensure hours, so that way I can get license and then start this process that Curt is already describing, or go maybe a little bit slower through it right now and have a little bit more delayed gratification to have the practice that you absolutely want, by the time that you do become individually licensed and can run your own practice.

Katie Vernoy 12:33
And if you know you want to run your own practice, that is another consideration when you sign on with someone because some group practice owners will do non competes, they’re not really totally enforceable. But it’s something where there is kind of acrimony, if you are going in planning to have your own practice, and they really want you to stay for the rest of your career. And so there’s there’s some difference there. I think it’s also something about the best group practices are ones that say like, Hey, we’re not gonna put a non-compete in place, and we’re okay with you taking the clients with you, and you go. But it is something where there’s a lot of different types of group practices, and really great ones and ones that are, you know, on the other end of the spectrum that are, you know, basically, like I said, community mental health organizations. So for you, Jake, I would suggest really, you know, kind of doing some soul searching, find the group practice that’s right for you. And like what Curt was saying, I’ve seen a lot of folks be able to do kind of that balance of having agency job where you, you know, kind of work there until you’re able to build the caseload that gets you out into a group practice or your own practice, if it’s, you’re licensed by the time that happens. And so you still have the income, the stability, but you also are building what you want in the long run. Okay, so we answer Jake’s question. So now for all the rest of the folks who are thinking, but I have a very different situation. I mean, neither you nor I had a private practice pre-licensed. So…

Curt Widhalm 14:02
Biggest regret of mine. Maybe not.

Katie Vernoy 14:06
I hope not.

Curt Widhalm 14:07
Biggest regret, biggest regret of my career, maybe?

Katie Vernoy 14:11
Okay. Okay.

Curt Widhalm 14:12
Is not having started a private practice earlier.

Katie Vernoy 14:14
Yeah. And I think for me, I didn’t want to be in private practice. Like, that wasn’t my trajectory. I didn’t know that I wanted to do private practice. I still don’t know some days. But I think I think there are folks that become therapists because they want to become therapists, but they don’t necessarily know what specialty or niche they want to be in. They don’t know what type of job they want. They just know they want to be a therapist, and they may not even know know all the options. And so if you’ve got someone coming forward that isn’t as definitive about going into private practice as Jake is like, where would you set on what they should do?

Curt Widhalm 14:54
I would tell them start doing the homework of what all the different options are and start talking with people in all those different areas.

Katie Vernoy 15:00
Okay, so informational interviews, basically.

Curt Widhalm 15:02
Basically, yeah, because it’s something where we hear a lot of people, especially in response to our DMH, agency type episodes of like, I am losing my soul being in this kind of position, I entered into this field because I wanted to be a therapist and help people. And much like Jake, what I ran into is, I left my soul and it is just now out there in the nether and I have nothing left to give anywhere else. And if I can help prevent people from making those very same mistakes, part of it is really doing your homework on where are people really not getting the satisfaction of being back in this field, or why they entered this field in the first place. If you can talk with other people and multiple other people to get an idea of like, Oh, I didn’t know that this was an option, or everybody from this particular type of field does, you know it has this kind of a super negative response. These people don’t seem to really like what they’re doing or you know, Why are all of the old therapists bitter when it comes to insurance or you know, whatever else it might be, get that information from other people. So that way you can align yourself on a path that, it might not be a perfect like, I want to end here. But if it helps prevent you from having to make a bunch of mistakes along the way, in order to be like, fuck it, I’m just going to do my own thing.

Katie Vernoy 16:41
I agree with with all of those points. I think for me, I think the thing that I, I feel a little cautious about is assuming that people will have their soul sucked from community mental health or really nice nonprofit organizations, and that there’s no benefit there. Because I truly feel like I had benefit in being in community mental health, it was something that was aligned when I started. There were times it wasn’t, there were things that were problematic. But for me, I felt like there was an opportunity to try to make some change. And during my prelicense journey, I certainly felt like there were a number of times along the way that I was like, this sucks and this is horrible. But there was also times when I felt like I can’t believe this is my job. I’m helping people, it feels so powerful and meaningful. I’m getting really great training, I met people that I’m still friends and colleagues with I mean, it’s something where I do believe that there are opportunities for positive in community mental health, because sometimes there’s pretty good salaries. I know that that’s not always the case, it may not even be commonly the case. But I think it’s something where there’s there are some opportunities that are good. Like I said, I actually got really great training on trauma informed care, I went to the African American Mental Health conference and got to see Dr. Joy Degruy, like I had all of these opportunities that I would not have had in a private practice. And so for me, I did find it very positive, I got to learn a lot of things about leadership, some good, some bad, I got to be able to do you know, program design and development. I, you know, I felt like there were really positive things. And I fell out, you know, for all the burnout reasons, and we talked about in other episodes, but it was not, it was I was going strong when I got licensed. And I was excited to become a supervisor in community mental health, and a manager, and a director, like I was excited about those things. And so yes, I did burn out and wash out. But it was like 15 years in.

Curt Widhalm 18:44
And I’m sitting here reflecting back on my time of being in agencies where I got sent to trainings that didn’t help not only where I ended up in private practice, but didn’t really help me with the agency that I was in either. And I was able to kind of pick and choose a lot of the workshops and stuff and conferences and going to speakers and stuff along the way in private practice that were things that I would that I was more interested in doing that did more impact my client caseload that, you know, ultimately, this is a free market versus a directed agency type thing that I’m glad that I didn’t have to sit through a bunch of trainings that I didn’t want to do. And, you know, continuing education system being what it is, I still have to do those from time to time. It’s something where I think if you can really sit down with yourself and clarify, here’s the direction that I want to go. Some people need to work in agencies to afford those kinds of trainings or to get the exposure to the variety of clients they want but that is not I think the only path towards doing that. And this again comes down to how clear is your vision for yourself that, you know, not everybody can move from having their soul sucked up to being a soul sucking dementor type agency person like Katie.

Katie Vernoy 20:17
So you’re calling me a dementor?

Curt Widhalm 20:21
You managed in community mental health.

Katie Vernoy 20:23
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I mean, there were times I did feel like a dementor or Charon pulling souls across the river Styx. But I think that was where my burnout came was realizing, as a manager, what the limitations were within the agency that I was in to make some of those changes. I mean, I think about the conversations and the connection with some of my colleagues as a, as a clinician, a frontline clinician, and, I mean, lots have changed since that happened. And there’s things that are even more soul sucking, that were coming down the pike as I was a supervisor. So I get that. It’s not exactly what it was when I was when I was a wee one in those situations. But I want to say that we’re we’re both saying, Do what makes YOU happy, do what makes what fits for you, and also do what practically you can do, I mean, I was paid a salary had benefits did the things I need to do the whole time I was getting my hours, you know, I was able to get supervision, supervised hours, that was definitely, you know, included. And so that I mean, I think no matter what job you’re looking for, when you’re pre or provisionally licensed, I think you want to have it aligned with your needs. I mean, there’s so much I learned from my colleagues in public mental health. I mean, I learned so much, that’s where I learned about narrative, and that’s where I learned about trauma informed care, you know, and resilience and all of the things that I use all the time. I mean, it sounds like our experiences were very different. And that probably, you know, impacts how we view it. But I think there’s, there’s real things to think about here. I mean, I got licensed fairly quickly, as did you, because there were so many hours were able to accrue. Now you’re saying, take your time, kind of do that stuff, I feel like, you know, sure, take your time if you can, but if you can’t, if you need to get paid, and you want to get licensed as quickly as possible, there are plenty of opportunities for training at every stage of your career. And so you don’t have to know everything before your licensed. And like, Okay, I’m done. Like you can explore things. If you don’t know who you want to work with. You can you can try different things on with other people who have built those, you know, with other agencies or group practices that have those specialties. Taking the time as a pre licensed person to be able to get that kind of training and that kind of experience I don’t think is bad. If you know your niche, yeah, start and immediately start building your practice so that you can have those long term clients that start with you. You know, from the beginning.

Curt Widhalm 23:00
I think one major difference that more so compared to your pre-license experience than to mine is, there’s a little thing now that is called the Internet. That is more…

Katie Vernoy 23:13
As it did when I was a pre licensed person.

Curt Widhalm 23:19
But a lot of these trainings and exposures and connections to other people are more readily available. Evidenced by things like the award winning podcasts, The Modern Therapist’s…

Katie Vernoy 23:32
Are we award winning now?

Curt Widhalm 23:34
My mom named this the best podcast for therapists that she knows of.

Katie Vernoy 23:40
Okay, good. Thanks, mom.

Curt Widhalm 23:44
But you’re pointing to things have changed. And, you know, part of this is really being able to look at I got licensed during the Great Recession. There are things to take into consideration right now that A your financial situation might put you into a different space, you know, student loans, if that’s a part of your consideration, those laws have been rewritten several times over since Katie and I were in school. The the main takeaway of this is, do what’s right for you, know what’s right for you, be informed about that, make a plan that’s according to that, know that there’s no one right way to do it. There’s no award for being the most rounded out therapist of all time by going to all of the trainings to face all of the different populations.

Katie Vernoy 24:37
But there’s also not an award for having your niche and specialty from the day you graduate.

Curt Widhalm 24:42
There’s a lot of there’s a lot of evidence that being very specialized like that, at least helps your clients faster and is potentially more lucrative by being able to be more effective with those clients.

Katie Vernoy 24:55
Sure, but knowing that from the day that you graduate isn’t required for you to be a good therapist in the long run. I’m just saying there’s not an award for being well rounded. And there’s not an award for being single focused. There’s all of the spectrum of things in between.

Curt Widhalm 25:13
Jake, if you want an award, I will make an award.

Katie Vernoy 25:20
Oh, my goodness. I mean, I think I think all of what we’ve said, we’re pretty much in alignment. It’s just we have slightly different perspectives, which of course we do, because we had different experiences. But I think we’ll start closing up here because I think this is a, you know, such an it depends kind of conversation. But I think it’s really important to talk to colleagues, do these informal informational interviews, be willing to leave a job or get a new one if things aren’t working for you. There are other opportunities, I think there are positive opportunities somewhere near you. I’m hoping. I mean, I feel like sometimes I’m very positive. And sometimes I’m very cautious. But I think that there’s more than just the opportunity that’s right in front of you. And so be thoughtful, ask the question, send us emails, obviously, we’ll we’ll do a whole podcast episode sometimes on these decisions. But think about the the point that you said, Curt, that I think is really the most is: think about where you want to be in five years. And some of that’s what practice do you want. Some of it could be how much debt do you want to be facing. And so sometimes maybe the money is more important than the particular experience. And then some of it is how much time you have towards the end of your career. I mean, people, later stage folks may not want to take forever to get licensed because they want to be licensed right away and doing what they want for their retirement career. So each person has their own thing.

Curt Widhalm 26:47
We made reference to a couple of previous episodes, we’ll include links to those in our show notes. You can find those over at mtsgpodcast.com. Follow us on our social media. Reach out to us if you also want an award. Connect with us on either social media or send us an email.

Katie Vernoy 27:06
And if you want to join in conversations with us, find us over on Patreon. We’re doing some Q&A things. We’re also having our happy hours again for our patrons. So find us over on Patreon as well.

Curt Widhalm 27:18
And till next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy.

Katie Vernoy 27:21
Thanks again to our sponsor, Thrizer.

Curt Widhalm 27:24
Thrizer is a new billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible and clinician should earn what they are worth. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the clients insurance. From there Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly and directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by cheque, confusion around benefits and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick and easy to get set up and it works great with EHR systems.

Katie Vernoy 28:05
Their team is super helpful and responsive and the founder is actually a longtime therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times. Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. Better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won’t be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using bit.ly/moderntherapists and use the code moderntherapists if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free. You will get one month of no payment processing fees meaning you will earn 100% of your cash right during that time.

Curt Widhalm 28:38
Once again, sign up at bit.ly/moderntherapists and use the code moderntherapists if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free. This episode is also brought to you by Simplified SEO Consulting.

Katie Vernoy 28:53
These days most people go to Google when they’re looking for a therapist and when they start searching you want to make sure they find you. Simplified SEO Consulting walks you step by step through the process of optimizing your website with their small group SEO intensives. Led by Danica Wolf, a seasoned SEO instructor with an MSW and strong understanding of the mental health world, you will learn what content you need to add to your website and how to optimize it with your ideal client in mind. Then watch your online rankings climb.

Curt Widhalm 29:22
The next one is enrolling now and begins in August. Visit simplifiedseoconsulting.com/seo-mastermind to learn more and register.

Katie Vernoy 29:33
Once again visit simplifiedseoconsulting.com/seo-mastermind to learn more.

Announcer 29:40
Thank you for listening to The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter and please don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss any of our episodes.

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