0:00

0:40:47

The Initial Consultation Call: Setting the Foundation for Therapy

Download Stitcher Subscribe on Android Apple Podcasts Leave a Review

Want updates on the podcast and our events?

The Initial Consultation Call: Setting the Foundation for Therapy

Curt and Katie chat about consultation and intake phone calls — the crucial first step in the client–therapist relationship. They explore how to balance logistics with empathy, set realistic expectations, and create safety and rapport from the very beginning.

Transcript

Click here to scroll to the podcast transcript.

(Show notes provided in collaboration with Otter.ai and ChatGPT.)

In this podcast episode: Mastering the Initial Consultation Call for Therapy

Therapists often overlook how much the very first phone call shapes the therapeutic relationship. Curt and Katie realized that despite covering marketing, private practice setup, and intake processes in other conversations, they had never done a dedicated episode on consultation calls. In this episode, they dig into how to confidently approach these first client interactions, balance logistics with clinical connection, and avoid common mistakes that can prevent potential clients from scheduling their first session.

Key Takeaways for Therapists about Consultation Calls

“Really what I take into those phone calls is I want to be able to create a sense of safety and empathy with clients from the very beginning of the conversation.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT

How consultation calls set the tone for the therapeutic relationship
Why therapists should tailor their approach to referral source, client familiarity, or presenting concerns
Balancing logistics (fees, scheduling, insurance, paperwork) with rapport-building
Strategies for exploring referral sources and past therapy experiences
How to assess expectations and educate clients about therapy length and process
The importance of transparency around Good Faith Estimates
Avoiding the trap of underselling yourself when quoting fees
Why some calls can be quick and still lead to excellent clients, while others require more time and care

“Philosophically, I don’t feel like I need to get everything in the intake call. I need to know enough to commit to sit in a room or on a video call with them, and think that I have something to offer, that I’m going to do good work with them, that they’re a match for me, that we’re going to be able to logistically make things work.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Resources on Consultation and Intake Calls

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

The Fifty-Minute Hour – Consultation with Curt or Katie
Practice management/EHR tools that allow intake scheduling and forms – Our Trusted Resources

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast

Meet the Hosts: Curt Widhalm & Katie Vernoy

Curt Widhalm, LMFT

Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: http://www.curtwidhalm.com

Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Join the Modern Therapist Community:

Linktree

Patreon | Buy Me A Coffee

Podcast Homepage | Therapy Reimagined Homepage

Facebook | Facebook Group | Instagram | YouTube

Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):

Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements).

… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)

Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.

Curt Widhalm 0:13
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast for therapists about the things that go on in our practices, the ways that we handle ourselves, the things that come up in the line of work that we do. And we’re several 100 episodes in by this point, and this really should have been somewhere around episode one. Which is, how do you redo and take phone calls effectively? And…

Katie Vernoy 0:43
I’m sure we probably did something on this like back in the beginning, but I couldn’t find one, so we’re going to do it now.

Curt Widhalm 0:51
Everyone needs to immediately go back and listen to every single episode and then let us know if you found something about intake phone calls.

Katie Vernoy 0:58
No, I remember talking about something. I think it probably was in a larger conversation. Anyway, we’re glad to finally be getting to a dedicated episode on intake phone calls.

Curt Widhalm 1:09
And I see this with a lot of the private practice associates, the licensees who are first starting out and maybe haven’t had the direct experience of having to talk with clients who are not already assigned to them. Many agencies will have people assigned, people who are intake coordinators, end up taking care of a lot of these first step logistics sorts of things. So this episode might steer a little bit slightly towards the private practice type people. But everybody should listen anyway, because we enjoy your company. So we also were talking before we sat down to record saying, some of this stuff happens in the initial phone call. Some of this happens in the initial intake session. So some of this might be depending on your referral source, something that a client is primed and ready to get together with you, and the intake phone call, or the initial phone call might only be five minutes long. People who are very primed and familiar with you, and other people who were reaching out to you, you know, in a very indirect way, a cold call, a cold email or inquiry through your websites, this might take a little bit longer. So we are here to talk about kind of the ins and outs of those first moments of conversations with somebody who’s a potential client, and how we vet out: Can we be effective? What do we actually need to cover? And hopefully be able to set ourselves up with some really good rapport from some of our very first initial contact with people.

Katie Vernoy 2:53
I find as I’ve been in practice for a lot longer, I have more of those five maybe 10 minute calls where consistent referral source, there’s a lot of connection very quickly, because I’ve got the credibility from whoever referred me. And just the basics happen in that first call. It’s, do we have the right time? Is the is the money going to work? How do I work? What are your issues? They’re aligned really quickly, and we schedule. And there’s always that kind of caveat that we’re going to get together and have our first session and make a final decision at that point. But there’s some clients where it’s like, you are my perfect client. Of course, this is all going to work out, and they already are primed to see me. And so I think in those calls, really, it’s just about making sure that there’s a presenting problem that that I can treat, money works, timing works, and we just get it scheduled. And I don’t think there’s much else that really needs to happen in that call, assuming that there’s not big crisis issues or a worry about fit that would need to be assessed before having someone actually schedule a session.

Curt Widhalm 4:10
So assuming that not every client is going to come in and be this perfect, ideal, matching puzzle piece to your practice.

Katie Vernoy 4:20
Yes.

Curt Widhalm 4:20
Let’s open this up a little bit more to maybe some of those people that aren’t quite as familiar with you. And really what I take into those phone calls is I want to be able to create a sense of safety and empathy with clients from the very beginning of the conversation. I’m not trying to start out with just logistics. I don’t want the first phone call to be Hey, unless you can meet every Wednesday at 1pm consistently, I don’t really have time to fit you into my practice. Sorry. Instead, I want to start with something a little bit more open ended be able to let people know that I’m gonna listen. So usually some kind of question that probes for what is it that’s bringing somebody to therapy at this time? It’s a really fundamental question. It allows for clients, in their own ways, to be able to articulate and communicate: This is what I am coming to therapy for. Now it could be something where somebody’s got that really identified already. Hey, I’ve got some life stressors going on. This is how it’s showing up. Other people, it can be very simplistic, and in sometimes, in my practice, it sounds ‘my wife told me I should go to therapy.’

Katie Vernoy 5:39
I think that’s a very important place to get to early. I actually start somewhere slightly different, and this, this comes from taking insurance in the past, those types of things. The first question I ask is, How’d you hear about me? So that I can get a sense, is there a solid referral source. Is, am I still on some old insurance panel? And so they’re wanting to get insurance coverage? And also a real sense of, Do I have any credibility here? Is there anything that I need to be aware of that this person is coming with? And it even could be, have they read my website? Have they listened to the podcast or, like, what is it that is leading them to call me? And that serves two purposes, the one I just said, but it also serves the purpose of understanding and evaluating my referral sources and where calls are coming from. That’s a business thing. It’s not a clinical thing, but I think it does help to realize if I know who’s referring or where my referrals are coming from, I can continue to invest in those things. And we have other topics, other conversations that I’ll link to in the show notes about managing your marketing and those types of things. But I think in this regard, I need to have a little bit of information about some expectations on the logistics side, because I might need to jump in and say I’m not on your insurance panel, and then we don’t waste time. Now, you need to be available every Wednesday at one o’clock or I won’t let you into my practice. Okay, that’s a little bit harsh. But I do think that there are some, there is some value in bringing logistics earlier than I think some of the business coaches say, because there might be, especially when your practice is full, because there might be clients that just won’t be able to see you, and then they’re heartbroken at the very end of the session. So play that part by ear, but I think back to the point that you were making Curt, I think that being able to understand at least some of the presenting issues is an obvious place to start or to get to very early in the session, because I think that’s the only way that you’re going to be able to shape the call around the client, who’s who’s in, who’s on the phone with you.

Curt Widhalm 7:52
Usually somewhere in the first part of this. I’m also going to be asking some sort of question around, do you have any previous experience with counseling, therapy, mental health work before? You ever had a diagnosis before? What was that experience like for you? Is this something that was helpful or something just as important to me, something that your previous therapist did that was totally not helpful for you? Again, I’m trying to keep things very open ended questions so people can be able to talk about what their past experiences are, and I can start to glean out what some of their expectations are before I specifically ask them. If people are identifying: hey, I really liked when my previous therapist gave me homework. I didn’t like when they got married and moved across the country and that I couldn’t see them anymore. So you’re looking for, okay, why aren’t you necessarily going back to your previous therapist? Oh, they’re not available anymore. Or there was a big therapeutic rupture that might need to be part of its own therapeutic goal setting and being able to trust in the therapy process. So being able to look at how much am I going to have to structure and describe what therapy is like, how much I’m going to have to potentially adjust some of my styles, and if that’s even realistic, based on what somebody else’s previous experience has been. Sometimes when people call in and they say, Hey, I know that you do EMDR therapy, I also need to follow up and ask, tell me what you know about EMDR because sometimes people hear about this as, hey, here’s this really great trauma treatment, and that’s all they’ve heard about it.

Katie Vernoy 9:41
And it’s magical, and it’s gonna fix you in two sessions.

Curt Widhalm 9:44
And so some of this then leads into parts of the next conversation is describing what therapy is like, in this case, what EMDR is like, and what it’s like with me, and we’ll get to that point in just a few minutes. But how do you probe for some of what people’s previous experiences with mental health is?

Katie Vernoy 10:08
I ask. I say, Have you been in therapy before? If so, you know, did you think about going to that therapist? What was, you know, what was the ideas there? And I don’t know that I’ve had anybody say, Oh, I hadn’t even thought about calling my previous therapist, I’m gonna call them and hang up, I think most of the time, they say, Well, we did that piece of work, and, you know, this is, this is something different, and it seems like you’d be a better match. Or sometimes they’ll say, you know, there’s some rupture, or that they’ve they’re unavailable for some reason. And I think that does help. I agree with that. I realized when you were talking just to step back one, one big, big, giant step back before we start moving into more of the conversation about what it’s like to work with us. I have a whole process that I should probably let people know about, because it makes things a lot easier. My electronic health record has the opportunity for somebody to schedule an actual video call or or a phone call. You can, they can choose that. And I have an intake form that has some of these questions answered. What are you hoping to, you know, address in therapy? What’s your experience with therapy? Where are you referred from? You know, do you want me to call sooner or call at the time when you’ve scheduled this appointment? Those types of things. And what that does for me is I actually am not coming in totally cold, even for totally cold outreach, because I have a little bit more information than I can draw from, and it means people are scheduling with me without having to go back and forth. So that’s another business tip, is being able to have some way that people can schedule in the middle of the night and get on your schedule. But with that information like you’ve said, and I’m just going to quickly, kind of summarize what you said and add my two cents. When I’m listening to the client talk about their presenting problem, previous experiences in therapy, their expectations, their hopes, those types of things, I’m listening to it both to address and assess, match with myself, as well as to determine how do I want to best talk with them about things? Because I’m already wanting to join with them, and I want to make sure that I’m speaking their language, I guess, or addressing what they actually are looking for, versus kind of a rote This is my script for when someone calls me, right? So it’s it, I think it’s being responsive to the person and giving them enough runway to give you enough information that you can before you jump into and this is how I work.

… 12:33
(Advertisement Break)

Curt Widhalm 12:35
And I think that this is different if you are talking to the client themselves versus talking to the parent of a client who might be calling as a child or who’s calling for their child, and this is kind of where you have to imagine how you’re going to describe to a parent how you’re going to relate to a kid. And a lot of the referrals that I get to my practice are teenagers, and I kind of describe this to a lot of parents who are reaching out, talking about my experience. I’ve been working now with teenagers for longer than most teenagers have been alive, and that was a really big selling point when I had first started my practice, when I was in my mid to late 20s, and I could relate to teenagers by saying, Hey, I’m closer in age to you. I just went through a lot of your life phases. Here’s kind of what we can relate on. And over the last 15 plus years now I am no longer that close. And in fact, I’m their parents age or now I’m getting to the point where I’m sometimes older than the parents who are bringing their kids in, and the way that I talk about it is I’ve still just been hanging out with teenagers for the last 15 plus years. So I’m not as cool as I used to be. I’m more like a recycled teenager where a lot of the themes are still very much the same. It’s just the pop culture references are different. You know, I’m no longer getting jiggy with it. I’m into whatever kind of anime that they want to talk about.

Katie Vernoy 14:09
Oh, my goodness.

Curt Widhalm 14:13
This does speak to their parents as I I know how to adopt some of that language that you’re referring to here.

Katie Vernoy 14:20
Well, and I think it’s different, depending on the framing of what treatment is, right. So if, if it’s a client whose wife has told them they need to come or a parent trying to get therapy for their kid, or someone in a lot of pain trying to get therapy for themselves, I think you address the needs and the concerns of the person you’re talking to, recognizing who is the decision maker. Is it the wife? Is it the parent? Is it the client themselves? Is it some combination, hopefully? And determining what is it they need to know to be successful? When you were talking about, like, the teen stuff, obviously, I work, the last time I worked with teens, well, I did a little bit in private practice, but mostly it was with community mental health, and oftentimes those parents were calling, and the parents don’t want to be there and the kids don’t want to be there, right? And so I think it’s trying to use the ability to join while also giving really very clear expectations and logistical information for them to navigate what’s next. And I think that’s the same for private practice or community mental health. It just is, there’s a lot more in community mental health, and so it’s determining, like, what paperwork are you going to need to fill out? What insurance, you know, information you’re going to share? Or, how do we get your How did we get your referral? And what, what evidence of of, you know, eligibility do we need? And those types of things. And so I think it’s talking through the logistical process of what’s going to take take place is going to be specific to whatever the logistics are for the therapy practice that you’re doing, whether it’s insurance, private pay or within a community mental health setting, but it’s something where as much clarity as possible can really get you to them making a decision yes or no, as well as them successfully navigating the steps to get to the first session.

Curt Widhalm 16:19
And I think in private practice, part of this is I delay a little bit of some of the logistics here, because I’m still wanting people to understand what therapy with me is going to be like.

Katie Vernoy 16:33
Yeah, and I might too. So I it was, it was kind of a thing that popped in there. So I think we can go there, there first. But I do think that some, some folks, are going to need that logistics earlier to make sure it’s not a deal breaker, not a deal breaker for them, before you wax poetic on what it’s like to work with you.

Curt Widhalm 16:53
And part of what I talk about next is kind of the the miracle question from solution focused therapy, which is, how do you imagine that this to work out? How long do you expect therapy to take? What is it that you’re looking for out of the therapy process? Because if somebody is coming in with that expectation, oh, I want EMDR, and it’s only going to take three sessions, because that’s what I saw in some Tiktok somewhere, then it gives kind of a chance to address what this looks like more realistically. So that way we can talk about what some of the logistics might be. And some of this does end up relying a little bit on some kind of clinical experience, that if you’re listening to this for kind of the first time you’re, you know, new to a private practice sort of thing that you are going to get better at this. But part of what you’re trying to figure out at this point is, what’s the level of need? If somebody is coming in for EMDR, and it’s a single incident, trauma from a car accident a couple of months ago, and that’s the only thing that they’re there to work on. It’s going to guide the rest of my conversation, to be able to say, okay, you’ve got a single incident trauma. My experience in being able to work with this looks like this. We can expect a couple of sessions orienting you to the EMDR process, and here’s what reprocessing would look like. Or if you’re CBT, you’re going to describe what CBT processes or little bit more kind of modality based there. But it this point, if somebody is describing a presentation that looks more like Complex PTSD, then I’m going to say, Hey, your expectation to be able to address this in 10 sessions isn’t something that I can necessarily offer. This is what therapy with me would look like: Is I would want to get a more comprehensive history about how you view your history, how that’s showing up today, I would expect that even that process is going to take several sessions, and then we can lay out what that might look like, as far as trauma treatment, whether it be something that you’re even a good candidate for reprocessing at this time, or if we need to focus more on some stability skills. So part of what you’re trying to assess is level of needs, and then also, at this time, level of urgency, because if somebody is also presenting with other factors that are risk assessment, suicidality, self harm, really, impulsive behaviors that also might necessitate: is this even the right level of care for a client? Or if I’m not able to see this person in the next couple of days because they’re expressing suicidality, what other options might be better for this client, including if it’s not me.

Katie Vernoy 19:57
With your expertise in EMDR and having folks reach out, it feels like your consultation calls may look a bit different. I like what you’re saying about assessing their expectations and needs and being able to determine whether or not this is a match. How can I describe therapy realistically and give them the information they need? I think the piece that you’re doing, but I don’t know that you said it this way. So I’m going to do it with mine, because my practice is much more, much broader. Oftentimes, people are wanting to work on career stuff, or potentially there’s past trauma, those types of things, but they’re not saying I want EMDR. If they do, I refer them out, because I don’t do EMDR yet. But I think there’s this element of trying to identify what their pain is, what it is that they’re wanting to work on, what their expectations are, reflecting that back, validating it and finding hope. And maybe that’s too much of a quote, unquote, customer service stance, but, but saying, I hear you, this is really hard, and this is, this is where hope can be found, I think helps them to start into the next phase of it. I do talk about, this is how I typically work, oftentimes, you know, I don’t talk about necessarily, length of treatment right away, depending on the person, because it doesn’t seem like that’s not, that’s not a question that I usually get. They don’t say, like, oh, how long is this going to take? It’s usually, we’ll, you know, we’ll go into it. We’re going to do a first session. I’ll get a lot of context. We’ll make some plan, and we’ll determine cadence of sessions and probably trajectory of treatment. But I don’t, in the first phone call, say this is kind of the typical length of treatment. If they ask, I talk through some basics around, you know, three to six months, versus three to six years versus, you know, the rest of your life. But I think there’s that, that element of saying, Hey, I hear you. I’m reflecting this back. Is this what you told me? And this is, this is how I would work with it, and this is the hope I see, and what I think might be the beginnings of what we could expect from our work together. And that you and then then I go to, does, how does that sound? Is that something that you would like? And sometimes I get more questions, and I clarify, and sometimes they say, oh, that sounds really good. And then I go to, would you like to schedule? So I think it’s, it’s something where I feel like yours is, the way that you’re describing it. It’s it’s very practical. I feel like mine’s more emotional, maybe I don’t know, like just it’s mostly connecting and getting them to the first session.

Curt Widhalm 22:31
And some of mine is, frankly, part of meeting the requirements of a good faith estimate and needing to provide that within the first day of scheduling. And so there is some expectation around that, but also part of it is wanting to not only just describe but also show what my process is, that I’m trying to meet you where your needs are at now, and also imagine and anticipate where your needs might be in the future, and it’s not something that I explicitly state that I’m doing that, but what I’m trying to do is to be able to show that there is a thoughtfulness, and I’m not just going to be constantly reacting and making stuff up as it goes along. Yeah, you just, you just need five more sessions here.

Katie Vernoy 23:20
Yeah. Yeah. The way that I address the good faith estimate, just to talk about that, is I only commit to the first session, and I tell them what the cost is for the first session, and then in the first session, and I do tell them, and I send them a notice with what fees are and what it would look like if they had weekly therapy, all those kinds of things. But I don’t say this is how long it’s going to go. It’s like, if you, if you have a session every day, every week for the year, this is what it’s going to cost you. And so for me, the I really try to session by session, at least at the beginning question and and collaborate with the client on opt in, on buy in. Let’s do the first session. Let’s do the intake. Let’s sort through this. Let me get the context. We can make a plan, and then we’ll decide from there if we’re a good match and what what therapy will look like at that point. And then, pretty much after every session, I say, Are we on for next week, or are we on in two weeks? Or what did you think about today’s session? So there’s, there’s a lot of check in and buy in that I think allows for, at any point a client to say, I think I’m good, and then I talk about it. But I think that there’s that element of, I don’t feel like I need to tell someone in the first session, we’re going to have 10 sessions, or we’re not going to have 10 sessions.

… 24:43
(Advertisement Break)

Curt Widhalm 24:45
I think a lot of us have learned that our answer to this is we can’t really predict how many sessions that therapy is going to take. From what I’m hearing now, I can venture a guess that it might take five sessions based on your expectations of what you’re hoping to achieve, but there might be stuff that we uncover during that time that might extend that. Generally, what we can expect in many treatment modalities is that therapy for a lot of people, usually takes somewhere around 20 to 30 sessions, and I want to credit Carrie Wiita on really being able to point this out, that she had cited in some conversation that I had had with her at one point or another, that when people from the initial phone call end up hearing, oh, therapy might take 20 sessions. They come into the first session scheduled with you with kind of a better idea that this might take several months, and especially if they’re naive about therapy and thinking that it might only take four or five conversations, that that does help to be able to better set realistic treatment expectations. And you know that also sets up for during your courses of treatment. Hey, here are other goals that have kind of emerged. Are those things that you want to add to your treatment plan that might further extend things. But clients in general tend to appreciate that kind of Hey, most people tend to take about 20 sessions with us.

Katie Vernoy 26:18
If I were to say that, it would be a lie, so I can’t say that. Because I have a lot of long standing clients. I do deep work. But I think if someone were to ask me, How long do you think this is going to take? I would use the complexity of the case, that kind of stuff, to determine what we’re looking at. And so I might say something to the effect of folks usually feel better within about a month. Sometimes folks are able to fairly quickly resolve what they’re wanting to work on, and that could be three to six months. Sometimes folks are working on deeper work, and it could take a lot longer. And so what I’d like to do in our first session is really get the context and the depth of what you’re working on, so that we can have a better sense of what that looks like. So I’m not saying 20 to 30 sessions. I’m saying it could be three to six months. It could be much longer than that. And so I don’t think that I’m hindering their ability to make a choice. If they say I really want to get through this quickly, I’d say, well, we can be very goal driven, and let’s talk about what that would look like and see if that’s realistic. But most of the time I have folks that are saying, okay, I’m good. Let’s, let’s jump in. Let’s do this thing.

Curt Widhalm 27:28
Where do you go next in your questions?

Katie Vernoy 27:31
I mean, if they’re saying yes, I might ask them if they have any additional questions for me. And they usually say, No, I’m good. And then I will start walking them through the logistics of I’m going to send over, you know, my portal is going to send you some paperwork. Let’s schedule an appointment. If they need to, you know, check on out of network benefits. We talk about how that might work, whether I’m using a an app that I have or something else. Talk through scheduling and communication. So I could go pretty specifically into logistics. And the logistics I have are pretty streamlined and are I’m able to send a single email. It has a lot of stuff in it, what from my portal and and then I also have follow on stuff and reminders and those types of things. I also make sure that they know that they can contact me ahead of the first session if they have any questions. And the other thing that I don’t remember, where I heard this from, but the paperwork I have is actually pretty detailed. It’s not ridiculous, but it’s not simple. It’s not like a quick thing to fill out. Like there’s the intake assessment, that piece the the questionnaire is pretty detailed, or it can be people can spend a long time on it, or they can say, I’ll tell you in session. And so I let them know what I really need from that documentation, and give them permission to talk things through. And, you know, fill it out to the best of your ability, share with share with me what you would like to share. The more information I have, the more context I start with, and the less we have to kind of do repetitive questions in the first session. But sometimes it’s easier to talk about things than write about things. So this is really an opportunity for you to share things with me, and you can share as much or as little as you’d like. But I do need these pieces of paper, you know, signed or filled out, right? So just kind of, this is the minimum, this is the maximum, and this is how you reach me, ahead of time if you need to.

Curt Widhalm 29:29
At this point, I’m explicitly pointing out what my fees are, what my availability is, and making sure that the logistics work out, as far as even just kind of the functionality, as far as can we meet? Is this a barrier for you being able to afford my fee? And describing what the super bill process might be, because I don’t bill insurance directly. And this is questions that I anticipate that most people are going to ask before I turn it over to Do you have questions for me about how this process works? And some people you know will have their questions about what does therapy look like, and trying to be able to answer most of them ahead of time, does help for making that part of the process as smooth as possible. I’m also really just wanting to, again, be able to have clients feel comfortable in being able to bring things up, and again, not only just telling them, Hey, you have the ability and the rights to make this all about you, because you are making an investment in you. But being able to show that I’m responsive to questions and like you, I offer Hey, you can reach out to me before our next scheduled time, and I will send you stuff through my portal, and it will cover probably a lot of the history, kinds of things that get into more detail. I know for a lot of people, when they make the initial contact with a therapist, they might not have all of their medications sitting in front of them. They might not have all of their available family history as far as other kinds of mental health issues that have arisen that gives a broader picture. And I want to be able to give people the time to sit and answer that, and I tell them, hey, I’m going to send over some paperwork. I would expect it to take somewhere around 20 to 30 minutes for you to fill out. So please make sure that you have some time to do that thoughtfully. And can you also fill it out at least 48 hours ahead of our first session, so that way I’ve got some time to be able to review it and can be better prepped for when you come in.

Katie Vernoy 31:52
I say that as well. I don’t hold it against them if they’re filling it out right before the session. I just take the time in the session to look at it and talk them through it, and I will send a reminder, whatever, and make sure that they have filled it out prior to session. But some folks are like, if you haven’t filled out the paperwork 48 hours in advance, I’m going to cancel your appointment. And I’m not that strict with it. Most of my clients show up, and if they don’t, it’s so rare I can kind of eat it, versus being very strict and harsh around arbitrary deadlines. So I don’t know how strict you are, but I think it is something where being able to show some compassion and connection and clear guidance without taking it to an extreme, I think helps me to get clients to the first session.

Curt Widhalm 32:50
Any other points that you would want to make sure that we cover here?

Katie Vernoy 32:54
I think philosophically for me, when someone signs up for a call, or I’m able to reach them when I call them back, I’m trying to spend as little time as possible, while also making sure it’s an adequate amount of time. And the reason I do that, and I don’t know what your thoughts are, but the reason I do that is folks are very busy, and most people don’t like talking on the phone, and so being able to quickly get through things and try to sort through whether it’s logistics early enough, so there’s not a lot of information shared with me as a clinician, if I’m not the right match, or if I’m not the, if logistically, it’s not going to work because my fee is too high, or they were expecting to use insurance, or my schedule won’t work, or those types of things. And I feel like there’s a different vibe when you actually have the first session. And so at this point, because of my marketing, because of my referral sources, I can typically tell that someone’s going to be good a match, and I can just get them into the first session. And we do most of this, you know, context gathering, history, joining all that stuff in the actual session. But if someone needs a little bit more hand holding, I won’t rush through the call. Or if they need more information, or there’s more context that they want to give to make sure I’m a good match, or I want to ask more questions, I will, I will give that time. But I just wanted to say that, because it feels like, when we’ve been talking about this, these sound like very long calls. And be truthful, like I literally will have five minute calls that end up in amazing clients, and sometimes I’ll have 30 or 45 minute calls that end up in referrals, referring out. And so I just wanted to say philosophically, I don’t feel like I need to get everything in the intake call. I need to know enough to commit to sit in a room or on a on a video call with them, and think that I have something to offer, that I’m going to do good work with them, that they’re a match for me, that we’re going to be able to logistically make things work. And so going back to what I kind of said initially, I I want to make sure I get through the bare minimum and that it feels good to start, but I don’t need to go into great depth on treatment modality, or on length of treatment, or on those types of things, because I feel like some of that stuff will really be solidified in the actual intake session.

Curt Widhalm 35:40
I think my last piece of advice for therapists here is when you are discussing fees, and especially when you’re first talking with clients about it, your desire to get clients in the first place, and potentially even just the excitement of having somebody who might want to work with you is you might start underselling yourself before your clients even ask. You say, Hey, my fee is $150 per session. And there is silence. Don’t fill in that silence.

Katie Vernoy 36:18
Don’t do it.

Curt Widhalm 36:20
You are going to be very tempted to say, but I can slide. And nowhere ever in the history of approximately anybody, has anybody ever said, You know what, I would rather pay the higher amount. So let the conversation go where it needs to go from there, but be confident in the fees that you set and allow for them to happen. And you can find our show notes over at mtsgpodcast.com. Follow us on our social media, join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, to continue on with these conversations. And until next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy.

… 36:59
(Advertisement Break)

Announcer 37:00
Thank you for listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter, and please don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss any of our episodes.