
Helping Parents Become What They Needed as a Child: An interview with Bryana Kappadakunnel, LMFT
Curt and Katie chat with Bryana Kappakunnel, LMFT about conscious parenting, discussing how self-awareness, emotional regulation, and healing personal triggers can help parents foster healthier and more connected relationships with their children. With a background in infant and early childhood mental health and her upcoming book Parent Yourself First, Bryana offers valuable insights for therapists and parents alike.
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(Show notes provided in collaboration with Otter.ai and ChatGPT.)
An Interview with Bryana Kappadakunnel, LMFT
Bryana Kappadakunnel is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and the voice behind Conscious Mommy. She serves new moms and families with young children who are in need of compassion, comfort, and support during life’s inevitable changes and transitions. She runs the Conscious Mommy Community, an online membership platform for parents who wish to heal their inner child wounds and parent from a place of intention and confidence. Her first book, Parent Yourself First, comes out January 28th, 2025 where she teaches parents how to raise confident, compassionate kids by becoming the parent they wish they’d had. She lives in Southern California with her spouse and 2 kiddos.
In this podcast episode, we talk with Bryana Kappadakunnel about Conscious Parenting
We invited friend of the show, Bryana Kappadakunnel, LMFT to talk about her work, including her new book, Parent Yourself First.
What is Conscious Parenting?
“The more that we can be aware of what that is actually triggering within us, the easier it is then to connect with the child in front of me, the child who is screaming “you’re the worst parent ever” and the parent who notices, gosh, I’m feeling that makes me feel so rejected. It makes me feel so hurt and small.” – Bryana Kappadakunnel, LMFT
- Conscious parenting goes beyond positive parenting by prioritizing self-awareness, personal healing, and understanding the root causes of emotional triggers.
- Bryana explains how addressing parents’ unresolved issues can create a healthier environment for children, often alleviating behavioral challenges.
- She highlights the importance of building authentic connections with children and fostering emotional safety through open communication and modeling accountability.
Common Pushback and Misconceptions for Conscious Parenting
- Bryana addresses resistance from parents who view traditional parenting as the norm or feel threatened by relational approaches.
- She clarifies that conscious parenting is not permissive but a balanced, authoritative style that combines high warmth, nurturance, structure, and boundaries.
- Bryana emphasizes the need to manage stress and prevent burnout by helping parents regulate their own emotions before addressing their children’s behavior.
How to Help Parents Navigate Challenging Parenting Scenarios
- When parents feel disrespected by their children, Bryana advises focusing on their own emotional reactions and understanding the child’s behavior as a form of communication.
- She stresses the importance of setting consistent boundaries while staying attuned to the child’s perspective.
- Bryana shares her own practice of apologizing to her children when she makes mistakes, modeling accountability and respect in the parent-child relationship.
How Conscious Parenting Helps Kids
“I think [Conscious Parenting] helps to build a deeper, more honest, more authentic and more intimate relationship with the child. Because rather than me just reacting and shutting down and probably pushing the child away…I might sit down and say, Hey, I’m getting the sense that you’re feeling really disappointed with me. Seems like nothing I do is right for you, and it hurts me to hear that, but I’m open to your feedback. Let’s talk about it.” – Bryana Kappadakunnel, LMFT
- During the pandemic, Bryana shifted her focus to working with parents directly, leading to significant improvements in family dynamics in shorter timeframes.
- Her work underscores the importance of addressing systemic and relational patterns within families rather than focusing solely on child behavior.
- Bryana highlights the benefits of her approach, including better communication, a deeper sense of connection, and raising compassionate, empathetic, and confident children.
Bryana’s Online Presence and Upcoming Book
- Bryana creates content tailored to the needs of parents and her clients, sharing bite-sized videos that inspire reflection and change.
- Bryana talks about her decisions on what to post as a licensed therapist with a big following on social media platforms
- She discusses her book, Parent Yourself First, which helps parents heal their own wounds to raise resilient and empathetic children.
- The book focuses on empowering parents to become the caregivers they wished they had, fostering healthier and more connected family systems.
Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:
We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!
Facebook: @consciousmommyco
Instagram: @consciousmommy
TikTok: @consciousmommy
Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:
Infant and Early Childhood Mental Health: An Interview with Dr. Barbara Stroud
Crafting Your Authentic Message, An Interview with Mercedes Samudio, LCSW
Family Therapy: Not Just for Kids – An Interview with Adriana Rodriguez, LMFT
Rage and Client Self-Harm: An Interview with Angela Caldwell, LMFT
How Can Therapists Help Politically Divided Families? : An interview with Angela Caldwell, LMFT
Does Your Social Media Make You Look Like a Bad Therapist?
Reflections on Content Creation and the Therapy Profession
Who we are:
Curt Widhalm, LMFT
Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: http://www.curtwidhalm.com
Katie Vernoy, LMFT
Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com
A Quick Note:
Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.
Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.
Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:
Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:
Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:
Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group
Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:
Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/
Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/
Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):
Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements).
… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)
Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.
Curt Widhalm 0:12
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast therapists about the things that go on in our practices, the things that go on with our lives, things that happen with our clients. And Katie and I are both licensed marriage and family therapists. We work with families a lot, and families tend to have parents and strangely, but we have not really talked about working with parents before. So we are joined today by Bryana Kappadakunnel. She’s a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Conscious Mommy on a lot of social media. So thank you very much for joining us today to talk about parenting.
Bryana Kappadakunnel 0:12
Thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited, finally, to be with the two of you.
Katie Vernoy 1:05
Well, I am just so excited to have this conversation. You and I, well, we have some we have some help, but you and I run a group in our therapists in the South Bay, and just great to have an opportunity to spotlight your work, because you’re so helpful in that. And just, I consider you a friend. So thank you so much for coming on and talking about this work. But we’ll get started with the question we ask all our guests, which is, who are you and what are you putting out into the world?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 1:32
Thank you guys. Yes, I’m Bryana Kappadakunnel, I’m a mom. I think, I think I think I’m a mom, guys. No, I think that’s like one of the most important things that I put out into the world. I’m a mom of two little ones, six and four, my cute Mateo, my cute Giovanni with Conscious Mommy, with what I do here in the South Bay, my main mission is to help parents become the parents that they always needed, healing from our past and finding new ways to show up, intentional ways to show up with our children. That’s my mission. That’s my goal.
Curt Widhalm 2:07
We start a lot of our episodes with a question that comes from a learning place, not a shaming place, but if people have made mistakes in the past, we can help others not make those same mistakes. What did therapists usually get wrong in working with parents?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 2:22
I think one of the biggest things that we get wrong as therapists working with parents is teaching parents how to change their kids. This idea that if a child changes their behavior, then things in the family will be better. The research does not support that. The research actually supports when parents change their behavior and when parents change the environment in which the children are existing, child behavior will change. So we’ve been watching an incredible paradigm shift, actually, you know, moving from a more behaviorist approach in parenting to a more relational approach. That’s what I think, if therapists are not trained in really understanding the child parent relationship, they will just perpetuate that old paradigm. You know, use these reward structures or use punishments and use consequences to get your child to listen to you or to get your child to do what you want to do. That does not produce the long term outcomes that I think a lot of parents when they come into therapy and are seeking help for their family, those types of interventions do not produce the outcomes that parents are wanting and needing.
Katie Vernoy 3:37
How did you get into this work?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 3:39
Well, you know, when you come from your own background of having been parented in less than ideal ways, I don’t want to sugar coat it. I, I went through 12 years of physical abuse, followed by several years of psychological, verbal, emotional abuse, and witnessed a ton of violence and chaos growing up, and I always felt like I had to be, you know, perfect and tip top shape, you know, kind of like the classic, oldest daughter, you know, phenomenon that I’m sure you guys have heard about. I didn’t know that I had PTSD. I didn’t know that I was anxious. I didn’t know that I was unwell until I got out of that environment, speaking of environment, until I got out of that environment, went to college and started interacting with my peers and realizing that what I experienced that was completely normalized as a child was not normal, healthy. It was kind of the classic definition of dysfunctional, of a dysfunctional family, but with a great big smile on our faces, right? Dysfunctional families know how to show the world what the world wants to see, and then inside they’re crumbling. So that’s really what led me to this work. I started my own therapy. I realized how impactful it was. I’m like, I want to be a therapist. Probably similar to how a lot of therapists get into therapy. I want to be a therapist. I feel this drive to work with children, especially very young children. So I’m a specialist in infant and early childhood mental health. I had this drive to work with very young children. If we can work with them at the youngest age, maybe we will prevent a lot of the issues that can happen when, you know, family dysfunction just persists and perseverates over, you know, multiple decades. And then even in that work with the kids is where I realized, gosh, I’m working with these children, and I’m seeing them, and I’m hearing them, and I’m helping them make sense of their traumas and their experiences, and then I’m sending them back to their family, to their home, and the the home environment is not changing. And that is really what propelled me to be very interested in the parents and wonder about what’s going on within you. There’s must be something happening here within you, because you’re asking me, How do I get my kid to listen? I’m giving you the tools to get your kid to listen, and you’re unable to access those tools in the moment. Why? What’s happening? And I think it was like that curiosity that made me realize it’s the parent who needs the help, not the child. Sometimes the child has some, you know, significant, legitimate issues that definitely need to be addressed. But if we can address the parents issues first, a lot of the issues with the child will alleviate. And finally, just to bring you on one more step, it was in the pandemic that I confirmed that theory, because I was I was no longer able to work with children. I’m not working with three year olds on Zoom. You know what I mean. I’m I’m working with the parents of the three year olds. And I was surprised, genuinely surprised, because I am a CPT person. I am a child parent psychotherapy person. I am fully like committed to that theory and that that mindset, until I no longer could do child parent psychotherapy, and I was really just focusing on the parent and still holding space for the child parent relationship, of course, and keeping that in mind. But the results were incredible, rather than like a year of therapy, I was seeing parents for six months, and the issues were resolved with their children. That was kind of shocking to me, and that’s what actually gave birth to Conscious Mommy. I started going online and talking about it.
Curt Widhalm 7:25
What is conscious parenting? How is this different from things like positive parenting?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 7:30
So positive parenting is going to focus on, you know, specific parenting techniques that you will use to, you know, be very connected to the child’s internal experience and, you know, validating their emotions and teaching them boundaries. So there’s a part of conscious parenting that includes positive parenting. But what makes conscious parenting conscious is the self awareness piece, that that acceptance and that understanding that when my child is screaming at me, you’re the worst mom ever, my job, my first job is not to change that behavior in the child. My first job is to recognize and notice what is that bringing up for me? Is that bringing up wounds of rejection, is that bringing up wounds of abandonment, of feeling not enough, of feeling like a failure, and really dealing with those hurts first. It doesn’t necessarily seem practical, right? Because that’s where I get a lot of pushback. Okay, but like, then what do we do? Like, what do we say to the child? And here’s my, my mission, or my here’s how I understand it. The more that we can be aware of what that is actually triggering within us, the easier it is then to connect with the child in front of me, the child who is screaming, you’re the worst parent ever, and the parent who notices, gosh, I’m feeling that makes me feel so rejected. It makes me feel so hurt and small. It reminds me of like when I was a kid and you know, I had to sit with those emotions on my own. Gosh, I wonder, Is my kid feeling rejected by me right now? Is my kid feeling hurt and small right now? So it’s using our own self awareness to get into the mind of the child. Is essentially how I look at and understand conscious parenting.
Curt Widhalm 9:24
I think you’re giving one example here. And I work with a lot of teenagers and their families, so where maybe the cycle has not been attended to over the course of years and hundreds, if not 1000s of arguments. So by the time that I’m hearing this with the parents that are in my office, it’s…
Bryana Kappadakunnel 9:40
Yeah
Curt Widhalm 9:41
…if I’m asking the parents, it’s usually, here we go again. I don’t care about my my pre teen saying you’re the worst parent ever. You’re ruining my life. It’s just all right, I’m hearing you complain. How are you responding to the other end of that spectrum, to those parents? Or just, I’ve heard this. I’m not, you know, gonna go down this road where it’s just validating, validating you, until it cycles back around again.
Bryana Kappadakunnel 10:07
Yeah. Well, it makes me wonder what’s going on inside of the parent, what’s what’s causing the shutdown? What is causing them to disconnect and not want to be intimate and vulnerable with their child. What it what is that about for them? And let’s not make it about the kid. Let’s not make it about the fact that this is the 1,000th time that you’ve heard this. Let’s really understand what it’s actually bringing up for you. And there’s probably feelings of, there’s nothing I can do that’s enough. You know, I’m just, I can’t deal with the fact, or I don’t want to face the fact that, you know, my kid thinks I’m a failure. I can’t handle that. And it’s not that it validates that the that you are a failure. We’re not validating failure. No parents are a failure. It’s that we need to address those darker, more difficult feelings and wounds is what I call them, that our children will trigger within us. You know, one of the things that I say is a child will find the way to trigger within you, whatever it is that you have not yet processed or you have not yet healed, and that’s that’s the work of being a conscious parent. It’s taking the heat off of the child and recognizing if I’m having a reaction, it’s my reaction to deal with. If we’re talking about ending cycles, breaking cycles of shame, of passing on the blame, of, you know, all these things that I think so many people in our generation are just so tired of, like the intergenerational process of just, I don’t want to deal with this. So here I’m going to put it on you, if we’re talking about that and we’re really prioritizing that, which I think, as therapists, we should be. I think a lot of most of our clients, are trying to break some kind of cycle, something that has harmed them, then we have to be willing to go into those places with them and help them make sense of that for themselves.
… 12:08
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Katie Vernoy 12:08
I guess the the question I get to is, and then what? What makes that work so important? Why, why is that that work effective?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 12:19
Because I think it helps to build a deeper, more honest, more authentic and more intimate relationship with the child. Because rather than me just reacting and shutting down and probably pushing the child away, right, in some way, even if it’s like a subtle, unconscious way, I might sit down and say, Hey, like I’m getting the sense that you’re feeling really disappointed with me. Seems like nothing I do is right for you, and it hurts me to hear that, but I’m open to your feedback. Let’s talk about it. It produce, it allows us to have better communication skills with our children. It allows us to actually have real conflict resolution skills. It allows us to develop a sense of safety in vulnerability. The more aware we are, the safer we are in our relationships. We show up differently when we understand what’s happening within us and we are, you know, allowing ourselves to be tuned in to the impact that we have on others. And then, I think, long term children being raised in this environment with parents who are aware, parents who are tuned in, these children learn how to be aware of themselves. Through that process of modeling, it becomes a priority. Gotta be aware of myself. I gotta be aware of my impact. Well, what does being aware of oneself and aware of your impact translate to in our field? Empathy, compassion. It doesn’t create soft kids. It actually creates strong, confident, compassionate children, which I think, you know, especially in the land today’s landscape of things, is probably one of the most important movements that that needs to happen, and that those who are parents, or people who work with parents and support parents in some way, you know, that’s our small contribution to to changing the world. And I don’t mean that lightly. I mean that like very seriously. Raising compassionate, empathetic, confident kids has that possibility.
Katie Vernoy 14:31
You use the phrase that does not create soft kids, and I think that’s the pushback I’ve heard a lot around whether it’s positive parenting or the stuff that you’re doing. You know, there’s the traditional parenting and the fix the kid, or even just treating kids as objects versus humans, and this is, this is a very different approach. So I’m curious how you deal with that pushback that I can’t just do this with my kid. My kid just needs to get in line. This is disrespectful, whatever that narrative is. Or this is going to make them soft, that the world is this way, whatever it is. I’m sure you’ve heard all of those things and…
Bryana Kappadakunnel 15:05
All of it.
Katie Vernoy 15:06
Lots of comments in your on your videos about this is ridiculous. How do you how do you deal with that pushback? What are your thoughts on that?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 15:14
You know, I see the hurt. I see the hurt in the person who’s making that that comment, right? They didn’t, they were not afforded the experience of having somebody who could see them and hear them and understand them and help them feel safe, who could help them see the world beyond their own perspective. There they did, they didn’t receive that. So of course, they they see a relational approach to parenting and one that requires self reflection, they see that as a as a threat, almost to their own system, their own way of looking at the world. Now here I will give this caveat, because this is an important caveat. There are tons of people online talking about gentle parenting. I’m putting air quotes on gentle parenting. They’re talking about gentle parenting and positive parenting, like all these things, but they’re not actually teaching that. They’re actually teaching permissive parenting, which we know from the research, is not the gold standard of parenting. Permissive parenting is high nurturance, high warmth, but little structure, little boundaries. We tiptoe around the children’s emotions and behaviors. Kids kind of run the show. We know that that style of parenting leads to anxiety. It creates failure to failure to launch. We know that it is not supportive of a child’s mental health. We know that. And then we also know that the traditional parenting paradigm tends to be more authoritarian. Right ruling with that iron fist. You do what I say because I said, Because I said, so. I am your parent. You do not disrespect me. I will take away your things. I will punish you if you step out of line. We also know that that high control, high structure, extreme boundaries, one way, communication, no, you know, very little warmth, very little nurturance. We also know that that leads to poor mental health outcomes. This is all based in decades worth of research. We know that it shapes the brain for high anxiety and depression, and it can increase physical aggression, and, you know, physical behavioral issues. It can actually increase drug use and other substance abuse problems to try to deal with the stress of feeling so confined. The way I look at especially the way I teach conscious parenting. It’s that gold standard, authoritative center, Mary Poppins style, you know what I mean? Like, here, you’re gonna take your medicine, baby, but I will give you a spoonful of sugar to sweeten it, but like, we’re not skipping out on that, on that medicine. If you guys watch me in action, you you would see I’m actually pretty strict, like I’m it’s not like I’m the soft, and I don’t teach parents to be soft with their children. I teach parents to not be afraid of the child’s pushback, to not be afraid of the child’s emotions, to see their pushback and their emotions as normal part of child development, social skill development, relational skill development. See their pushback as building negotiation and collaboration skills. It’s not such a bad thing. But also sometimes, child, yes, we will take your way. You have a good idea, I like it. And then sometimes we’re gonna take my way, because I have to think about the good of the whole. And you’re not thinking of the good of the whole. You only think about yourself right now. That is the gold standard of parenting, high warmth, high nurturance, high structure, high standards, high boundaries, really blending in all of them. And for parents to be able to do all that now this is where I bring in, like the conscious approach, for parents to be able to do all that, to do it effectively and to not burn out, right? Because we have a serious problem in general with burnout in parents, and with all of the intensive parenting techniques these, you know, send your kids to Kumon and get them in the best preschool so they can go to the best college. You know, with all of that intensity that is around modern day parents, we have such a high likelihood of burnout. For parents to not burn out on this approach parents have to do their work. They have to become more aware of their own stress patterns, their own triggers, their own wounds, etc.
Curt Widhalm 19:38
So, if I’m considering changing how I talk with parents to this. I have many a family where it’s argument that starts out, then the kid is telling the parents to f off, and some parents if they get to the point that you’re asking all right, this is bringing up, I’m dealing with I’m feeling threatened, I’m feeling disrespected. Checking in with the kid on, hey, I’m, you know, feeling that you’re disrespected, here. The kid continues to mouth off whatever else. Eventually they’re going to ask me, yeah, we still have to have some consequences for them initially using curse words at me. How does that fit into this?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 20:20
I mean, why is my question? Like, why do we need to have…
Curt Widhalm 20:24
Because he’s gonna get away with it is…
Bryana Kappadakunnel 20:26
Right. Right. Because we’re afraid of not having control. That’s what we’re afraid of. And that child is probably mouthing off because they feel stifled and they don’t have enough control, control over their own lives, they their opinions, their their their ideas, are not being heard in an egalitarian way. I could guess. I could guess. And so there definitely needs to be some boundaries, right? If we’re mouthing off, if we’re speaking, if we’re if we’re saying, fu, Oh, it’s we need to take a break. Go to your room. We’re gonna take a break, right? So maybe, maybe a parent would interpret that as a consequence. Let’s go to our room, let’s cool off, but we’re gonna come back and we’re gonna talk about this, and we’re going to find productive ways to talk about it. But what I find is that by the time children are teenagers and they’re mouthing off, they’re flipping off their parents, we’re looking at 10-15 years or so of children not being heard by their parents. We’re looking at issues that go back almost a decade earlier. So, the priority has to be parents being aware of what that’s bringing up for them, and parents tuning into these kids and using their behavior as communication. Of course, have boundaries, right? Honey, lovey, we don’t speak to each other like that. You do need to go to your room. Come back out when you’re ready to talk to me appropriately. I am happy to talk to you when you’re ready. Sure. No problem. I have no problem with that. I don’t let my children speak in disrespectful ways because we have a value system that we find respectful ways to communicate our hurts to each other. And who upholds that value system first? Me. So when I’m when I’m angry with my children, and I get aggressive, I have to check myself, and then I have to apologize to my children. Look, I got really aggressive there. I got super scary. That was not okay, honey. I am so sorry. Mommy’s working on it. A lot of parents don’t apologize enough to their children. They get, they get cold feet, and when we really look into it, we see that there are wounds there. They didn’t have parents who apologized to them, or they are existing under that, that childish framework that parents don’t have to apologize to their kids because parents, the children are a parent’s property, and they can do whatever they want to them. So those are the types of systems and ideas that you know my work is trying to actively challenge and change.
… 23:06
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Katie Vernoy 23:09
It seems like this work can be super powerful. I really like what you’re talking about, and I know that there’s some of the work that I know you have a background in community mental health, I know some of that is kind of how we were taught. It has to be really family focused, environment focused, and helping these parents to get resource or caregivers to get resourced, and it’s super hard. I’m thinking about some of the work that you’re talking about, coming into in tune with my own feelings, understanding what’s being triggered in me, and trying to assess my child and what they might be feeling and having a conversation, and I can hear Ow, that hurt, and you’re bringing this up in me. And are you feeling this like I can see it going down a weird path, either an aggressive path, I can certainly see it going down a passive, aggressive path, where parents are now just sharing, you’re doing this to me, and it’s bringing this up, and I’ll be okay. But you know, like, I can see this being really messy, especially for parents that potentially have a lot of wounds, a lot of their own stuff, and no really good examples of what healthy parenting can look like. And we can, we can stick with the ones that are coming in early, you know, coming into the zero and the zero to five stage, if that helps. But how do you get parents to the place where they can do this, if not consistently, at least effectively, and know when they’re doing it in a way that’s effective?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 24:38
Well, especially when they are in therapy with me. Bring that to me. Don’t put that on your kid. Your reaction to your kid is not your child’s business. It’s just not their problem. How you are reacting to your kid, that’s your business. That’s what you get to work on. This is what this is the work of being in relationship, whether it’s in relationship with the child, with a partner, with a friend, that’s what really I’m teaching here, is relational work. And part of being in a relationship is knowing that they’re going to bring out parts in you that you don’t like, or parts that scare you, parts that frustrate you. That is going to happen, and it’s not that other, especially in the child parent dynamic, it’s just not the child’s place. They psychologically cannot really handle it anyway, right? And it has the potential, as you were saying, to create like codependent and enmeshment patterns if the parent, if the child offends the parent, and then suddenly the parent makes it all about themselves. No, that’s not what I’m teaching. I’m actually asking parents to do the reflective work when they’re not in the moment, and then when you are in the moment, you are pausing, you’re noticing, wow, that hurt. Then you maybe clock that. Okay, I’m going to reflect on that later. I’m going to I’m going to bring that to my partner, I’m going to bring that to my therapist, I’m going to bring that to a friend. I’m going to, like, make sure I make some time to process that, because that was a big one, and now I’m going to be present to what’s going on inside for my child. I’m going to give them the experience that I also have to give to myself. I’m going to help them feel seen. I’m going to help them feel heard. I’m going to help them feel understood and help them feel safe. And when I can do that, and when I can do that consistently enough, right? We’re not aiming for perfection. When I can do that consistently enough, and then the times that I don’t do it, I apologize. I apologize for my impact, regardless of whatever my intention was, I’m going to create a security in that child. I’m going to create a child who feels, you know, securely attached. They feel grounded in who they are. They understand relationships. They understand the flexibility of relationships. It’s going to be a more positive outcome.
Curt Widhalm 26:58
I want to shift to talking about your online presence is amazing. How is, how do you decide what to put out and what’s the general online feedback that you get?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 27:10
Yeah, that’s been, that’s been a journey. What I see is, you know, whatever is relevant, whatever is relevant in my own life, whatever is whatever themes and things are relevant in my client’s life, I never share like any specific client stories, but there’s a lot of just general themes that the clients will talk about. And so what I’ll do is I’ll create a video, people seem to like me and my acting videos. I will play the child, I’ll be very dramatic, you know, I get, I get comments like, Whoa. That scream really sent me. It really triggered me. It like, really reminded me of my mom. And I’m like, Yes, I’m using my trauma for good, you know, helping people, helping people feel connected, and then want to make a change, because that’s the mission, right? These little, these little bite sized posts and videos are really just to inspire us, just to think a little differently about something. And if I can get one parent every day just reflecting a little bit more on themselves and understanding themselves more deep, deep, more deeply, and understanding their children more deeply, to me, I’ve done a good service. So I think that, you know, for any therapist that’s wanting to get online, you know, it’s still a service. And I think that’s that’s really important to understand. Don’t make it about you. Don’t make it about like, like, the way a typical influencer would be making it about them, right? Look at what I’m wearing. Look at what I’m doing. Look how great my life is. No. Like if you’re coming on, showing up as your professional self, it’s important that you remember this is a service, and so your video should be in service of the people that you want to reach. That’s what I focus on.
Katie Vernoy 29:00
The message is a bit complex, and it’s also one that, as we talked about earlier, is a little controversial, that kids are humans and deserve to be heard and seen and validated and all those good things.
Bryana Kappadakunnel 29:14
Isn’t it crazy though, that that’s controversial. I mean…
Katie Vernoy 29:17
I know, right?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 29:18
That shouldn’t be controversial, but please continue.
Katie Vernoy 29:20
It should not be controversial. But I I think especially in a social media space where there are things that keyboard warriors are are want to do, I think it is, tt takes a lot of thought. And so in getting these bite sized nuggets, how do you simplify the message? How do you make sure that you’re protecting your license. How do you make sure that you’re keeping aware of all the potential audiences for that, that post that you’re putting out, of that video that you’re putting out? Because I think Curt, and I’ve talked about this on other episodes, we’ll link to those in the show notes. But it seems like there are folks that we’ve seen who will make controversial statements or put out those bite sized pieces and and folks will use it as examples for the opposite of what’s actually trying to be presented. And when, even when we were going through that episode, I was thinking about your posts and the way that you do it, and it feels very thoughtful, and it feels like it does a really good job at walking that line. And so if you talk through kind of your thought process on how you decide what to put out, that would be helpful I think.
Bryana Kappadakunnel 30:28
What I see in some colleagues, whether they’re licensed or not, is like material to get engagement. They will put out controversial ideas or big controversial subjects just for engagement. And I think that that is really problematic, but I also understand how that works with the algorithm. You know, if your material is not rage bait, in some ways, you’re not going to go viral. And for a lot of people, if this is your sole business, they’re wanting to go viral to be able to, you know, fund their business. That has never worked for me. In fact, I don’t like going viral. I do not like it. It is very anxiety provoking, going viral and knowing that, like, okay, more and more people are seeing this, and more and more people are having opinions of this. I could care less what people think about me. You learn that very quickly, people are going to think of things about you. I’ve had comments about my nails, my face, my plants, my voice, like I’ve had comments about everything you could possibly think about. I’m done. I could care less what the trolls think about those kinds of things. But when I post, I think about every client who I’ve ever worked with, every client who I ever will work with, I think about them looking at that post. What will they think about that. How will that affect them? That’s what makes my content very personal to me. Because I am not putting out something just to bait and get engagement. I am putting out something very intentional that I’m being so mindful about how I think others might receive it. Of course, we can’t always predict how things will be received, but at least the intention to not harm is there. And I think that’s really, really important. If you’re prioritizing for engagement, there’s a high potential for harm. Don’t do it. It’s not worth it. I promise you, it’s not worth it. You won’t even get the followers who really need to follow you. You’ll just get lurkers, or even people like trolls. Trolls will follow you just so that they control you. So you don’t, you don’t want that. You want to, you want to, it’s more about quality, quality engagement in reaching the people who need this message. So that’s my process. That’s how I think about it, and it’s helped me. I mean, have I grown as fast as other people talking about similar things that I talk about? No, but it’s not really about that. You know, I don’t, I don’t make it about that. I make it about reaching people, and I in and supporting people and giving people information that I know is useful. I have an online community that I run of parents that are doing this work, and I get feedback every day. I implemented the ideas from this video, and I was really doubtful. I didn’t think it was going to work. And, holy crap, it worked, like my my kid, like actually stopped, and he engaged with me, and I felt calm, and he felt calm, and I was able to support him. I get these messages every single day, right? So, so I know what is being put out there is impactful, and maybe that’s a message for folks who want to get online. Put out the message, see what people say, and if people are resonating with it, great. Go with it. And if people aren’t resonating with it, or you’re getting feedback, take the feedback, make the changes necessary, correct any harms that have caused, and then keep going. It is social media, after all. So it’s not like things stay in our minds for very long on social media.
Katie Vernoy 34:21
Tell us about your book?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 34:23
I would love to! I wrote a book. By the way. Did you guys know that writing a book is like a serious process? It’s like, this is like a three year project.
Katie Vernoy 34:33
Oh, wow.
Bryana Kappadakunnel 34:34
Yeah, I pitched the proposal in 2022 so and I spent all of 2023 writing it, and 2024 editing it, and doing the audio book and all the marketing and everything. But anyway, I wrote a book. It’s called ‘Parent Yourself First.’ It is a book about raising confident, compassionate kids by becoming the parent that you wish you’d had. This book is the book that I wish my mother could have read. This is the book that, you know, one reviewer called it the cycle breakers almanac. It really teaches you to examine the different patterns that have been passed down to you, how to heal your inner child wounds and show up for your children in the ways that they need you to. So it’s very much in line with everything that we talked about today. I teach you how to set healthy boundaries for yourself. I teach you how to hold boundary and structure with your children. We learn how to navigate sibling relationships and even parent partner dynamics. The message of it is you don’t have to have had a good parent to become a good parent, and I am so extremely proud of this book. I have my personal experiences weaved in there, tons of you know, professional clinical experiences and examples from my clients, which who, by the way, are like, it’s a concepts of a client. I took, I took bits and pieces of different client stories and created almost like avatars, because I wanted, obviously, we need to protect our clients confidentiality and their stories are not my story to tell. So I had to, you know, take a little bit of literary liberty to protect the people that I work with. But I’m very proud of it. It’s my first book, and it comes out the end of this month, the end of January.
Curt Widhalm 36:19
Do you have a website, or where else can people find you?
Bryana Kappadakunnel 36:23
Yes, I do have a website: consciousmommy.com. You can find me on, you know, Instagram, Facebook, all those@consciousmommy. And you know all the information for the book, for the online community, for parents that are needing support, which is a low cost, but I offer weekly parenting classes, and I do a monthly parent support group of parents of strong willed children. There is an active private forum that kind of feels like Facebook, but like isn’t on Facebook, so it’s a really safe, non judgmental place for parents to connect. So everything can be found at my main website as well as my blog and my newsletter, of which those are free resources.
Curt Widhalm 37:03
And we will include links to all of those on our show notes over at mtsgpodcast.com follow us on our social media. Join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist Group, to continue on with this conversation. And until next time, I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and Bryana Kappadakunnel.
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