0:00

0:44:38

How Clients Experience Therapy: From First Inquiry to the Waiting Room: An Interview with Michael Ashford

Apple Podcasts Stitcher Spotify Subscribe on Android Download Leave a Review Keep me updated!

How Clients Experience Therapy: From First Inquiry to the Waiting Room: An Interview with Michael Ashford

Curt and Katie talk with Michael Ashford about how clients experience therapy before, during, and after the session itself. They explore what therapists can learn from customer service, marketing, and communication so clients feel clear, supported, and oriented from the first inquiry through intake, onboarding, the waiting room, and ongoing practice policies.

Transcript

Click here to scroll to the podcast transcript.

(Show notes provided in collaboration with Otter.ai and ChatGPT.)

About Our Guest: Michael Ashford, Senior Director of Marketing at Sign In Solutions

Michael Ashford is the Senior Director of Marketing at Sign In Solutions, and has spent the past decade building and leading marketing teams at companies large and small. Michael is a former award-winning journalist, a two-time TEDx speaker, and holds a Master’s degree in Communication from Kansas State University. Michael’s approach to marketing focuses on scaling companies through the power of effective communication, storytelling, and humanizing brands.

In this podcast episode: How clients experience therapy from marketing to intake to the waiting room

Most therapists were trained to provide therapy, not to design a client experience. In this conversation, Curt and Katie talk with Michael Ashford about the parts of practice that happen before the clinical work begins: your website, your messaging, your intake process, your paperwork, your waiting room, and your follow-up systems. They look at how small points of confusion can create stress for clients and how thoughtful systems can make therapy feel safer and more seamless from the beginning.

Michael shares a marketing and communication lens on private practice, emphasizing that customer service is not just a one-to-one interaction. Instead, it is the full experience clients have from the moment they find you to the moment they leave your office and prepare to return. Curt and Katie also dig into the tension between providing a strong client experience and maintaining firm therapeutic boundaries, especially around cancellations, rate increases, and the therapist’s own time and energy.

Key Takeaways for Therapists on Client Experience, Intake Workflows, and Practice Boundaries

“The thing that [therapists often get wrong] is believing that customer service or customer experience only happens when you are interacting directly, one to one with that customer or with that patient.”
— Michael Ashford

Client experience starts before the first session. Your website, directory profile, inquiry form, and response process all shape whether a client feels like you are the right fit.
Therapists can reduce client stress by setting clear expectations at every step: when someone will hear back, what paperwork means, how check-in works, what the office looks like, and what happens if they arrive early.
Niching helps clients recognize themselves in your messaging. Michael emphasizes that clients should be able to land on a website or profile and think, “Oh, they’re for me.”
A seamless experience matters. The tone and expectations set in marketing should match the intake call, the onboarding process, the office environment, and the follow-up after session.
Waiting room confusion is a real clinical issue. Clients should not be sitting there wondering, “Do they know I’m here?”
Good systems support therapists, too. Clear processes protect time between sessions so clinicians can use the restroom, drink water, write notes, and reset before the next client.
Good customer service does not mean unlimited availability. Therapists still need strong personal and professional boundaries.
Policies around cancellations and rate increases are easier to enforce when they have been clearly communicated up front.

“Good customer service does not have to mean giving the customer everything that they want.”
— Michael Ashford

Resources on Therapy Client Experience, Waiting Rooms, and Practice Onboarding

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

Sign In App / The Receptionist: thereceptionist.com
MTSG link mentioned in the episode: thereceptionist.com/mtsg

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast on Practice Systems and Therapist Sustainability

Meet the Hosts: Curt Widhalm & Katie Vernoy

Curt Widhalm, LMFT

Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: http://www.curtwidhalm.com

Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: http://www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Join the Modern Therapist Community:

Linktree

Patreon | Buy Me A Coffee

Podcast Homepage | Therapy Reimagined Homepage

Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Connect with the Modern Therapist Community:

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):

Transcripts do not include advertisements just a reference to the advertising break (as such timing does not account for advertisements)

… 0:00
(Opening Advertisement)

Announcer 0:00
You’re listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.

Curt Widhalm 0:12
Welcome back, modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. I’m Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy, and this is the podcast for therapists about the things that go on in our practices, the things that go on in our world. And let’s be honest, most of us went to grad school because we want to deep dive into people’s lives, solve generational trauma, maybe, if we’re lucky, master the art of meaningful silence. Very few of us sat in lectures thinking, I can’t wait to design high end conversion automation intake workflows. And we are here today with Michael Ashford. He’s the senior director of marketing at Sign in Solutions to talk more on the customer service end of our field, a field that isn’t necessarily something that got taught a lot in grad school. So we are very happy to have you here with us today. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing some of your expertise.

Michael Ashford 1:18
Katie, Curt, thanks so much for having me. I look forward to the conversation.

Katie Vernoy 1:22
I’m looking forward to this conversation as well. But before we get started, I’m gonna ask you the question we ask all of our guests, which is, who are you and what are you putting out into the world?

Michael Ashford 1:32
Love this question, and I love the way that you framed it, because I think it’s important that I just don’t tell you what I do, like you said, Curt, I’m the Senior Director of Marketing at a software company. But if you take a step back and get to who I am, I believe that most of us were never taught how to communicate well. Now I’m speaking to a group of therapists here who know a lot about communication and interpersonal communication, but as a as a someone who has a master’s in communication, someone who has delivered TEDx talks, someone who has been a marketer for 15 plus years now, someone who was a former journalist. I love telling stories. I love people’s stories, and I love getting into how we can overcome conflict by better understanding each other through the words that we use, through understanding the emotions behind the words that we use, all of that flows into communication, and the fact that, I think our formal education failed us when it came to how do we communicate well with others, especially when conflict exists. Now I know that’s not what we’re talking about here today, but that is, that’s whether it is in marketing, whether it is as a journalist, whether it is as TEDx speaker, all of those things come down to that fact, I love communication, and I love telling people’s stories.

Curt Widhalm 2:49
We’re talking about customer service for a lot of therapists, when they’re first stepping into this space, it might feel a bit cold, it might feel just out of their element, like wearing clothes that are two sizes too small, and so there’s a lot of just areas that people can make mistakes, and maybe taking some of the collective wisdom out of things that you’ve learned before. What does some therapists typically get wrong in this space? And if we can save our audience some opportunities to not make some of those same mistakes.

Michael Ashford 3:21
The thing that immediately comes to mind there Curt is believing that customer service or customer experience only happens when you are interacting directly, one to one with that customer or with that patient. When we think about the entirety of the customer service experience and something that we’ve trademarked here at The Receptionist to now Sign In Solutions, or part of the Sign In Solutions family is this concept of radical support. What does it mean to go above and beyond just that one to one interaction with someone when they have a specific challenge or a specific need, and think about the entirety of their interaction with us, from the moment they become aware of us to the moment when they walk out of our building and anticipate the next time they will engage and interact with us. As it relates to your audience and the audience listening here, I think of it like one of our clients who is a therapist for folks who struggle with eating disorders in particular, and so when you think about the type of person that is going to walk into that space and the challenges that they’re dealing with, the things that are going through their head, and what they come into the therapy space to to hopefully deal with and overcome, well, that particular client of ours thought about the waiting room and making sure that there is size inclusive furniture, making sure that there is that there is, I know a lot of therapists talk about making sure you have white noise, of course, so you don’t hear what’s going on. That’s a privacy thing, but just making sure that what you’re offering by way of snacks, or the expectations for a client when they enter into your space, that it has all of those elements of in mind about what will their experience be, and you might not even be in the room in the first place.

Katie Vernoy 5:16
It seems like some of these things come later on. A lot of clinicians, they start their practices, and they are basically flying by the seat of their pants. And so the thought that you’re describing here is it’s pretty extensive. It’s looking at who am I seeing? How can I best support them from the moment they walk into my physical office? And I think that’s kind of what we’re talking what we’re talking about today, is those that have physical offices that they’re they’re having come in. And when I think about that, each niche, each specialization, is going to have some different things to consider. And maybe it would be helpful for us in in this conversation to focus in on the stuff that’s a little bit more universal and and maybe describe that as best we can. Because I think I talked to a lot of folks who start their private practice, and every decision feels overwhelming. It feels very daunting. Which which EHR should I use? Which thing should I use? How should I set this up? And so my goal in our conversation is to be able to simplify this for folks, because I think it’s, it’s just daunting all these decisions that they can make. So what are some of the choices that you’re seeing as far as the customer service angle that folks need to be aware of, and can we simplify it for them?

Michael Ashford 6:43
I think in that question, Katie, if I heard you right, one of the one of the most important things that I think about, certainly as a marketer, is getting a really strong understanding of who you want to serve. And I also understand when you’re just getting started, the the pull, the draw is to say, well, I serve anybody and everybody, because it’s just about your time is your money, and so it’s just about having a client across from you, whether it’s digital or in person, which I know we’re kind of talking about. But there is often a pull, especially with people just starting out at a new business venture that I want to be for everybody, because I want to cast as widen as possible, because I need money coming in the bank. Like I need it coming in the door. But we’re taught in marketing, we’re taught in in so many different ways and fashions that if you’re thinking about starting a business, every business owner will tell you that their business grew the fastest and it grew the most when they could speak to a specific audience with a specific problem or pain set. And it doesn’t mean that you can only focus on that narrow area. It doesn’t mean that you can only say, I’m only going to treat people or see people with this, this type of trauma. But having an idea of who your best client is and speaking directly to them in your marketing when they walk in the door, and the type of experience that they might might have or or how you position yourself in your Psychology Today profile on your website. What problems are you, are you speaking to? Who’s the audience? That will help grow, because when somebody lands and begins to interact with you, when somebody lands on your website or your profile, you want them to say, Oh, they’re for me. I see myself sitting across from them now and then, knowing and understanding my problems or the things that I’m dealing with, the challenges that I face, I want to work with that person. So if we’re talking about real high level applicability to everyone, it’s niching, it’s understanding who your best fit audience is.

… 8:50
(Advertisement Break)

Curt Widhalm 8:52
How does that translate from the beginning of somebody’s experience with a therapist through not only the marketing materials that they need to fit into the clinical process.

Michael Ashford 9:04
Well, you want it to all be seamless. I would imagine, you would want the profile or the expectation or the marketing that you put out there, whether it’s on your social media, or any other avenues we’ve mentioned today, to then match the experience when you’re first invited into that onboarding call, or when you’re first invited into the EHR system. And what paperwork do I fill out? I wanted to match the experience that I expect when I made the decision to reach out to this person. So was that easy? Great. Did that speak to me? Absolutely. Now, the onboarding or the intake call or the intake paperwork, does that match my same experience and my same expectations? Then when I actually get into session, does that match what I signed up for, what I’m coming into? Does the office environment or the practice environment, if we’re talking about an in person, physical space, does it match again, the privacy that I expect? Does it match the feel that I expect from this person? And then finally, everything post after that, how do I how am I billed? How am I followed up with, how do I schedule my next appointment? Customer support and experience, the customer support experience is just that. What is my experience through the entirety of the process, and does it meet my expectations that formed in that very beginning?

Katie Vernoy 10:36
What are the risks if it does not meet those expectations?

Michael Ashford 10:40
I think at the at the at best, it creates some disappointment and some initial hurdles to overcome. I’ll give you an example from from me and my own personal experience. I’ve walked into several different therapist’s office as a patient over the last five years, and in every single one of those offices, that was not the first time I was meeting my therapist, was the day of my first appointment. I had, I had met them before, digitally at that point. But then you walk in that first day, you’re a little bit on edge, you’re a little bit nervous, you’re thinking about, what am I even going to talk about? How many times has somebody sat down and said, Oh, I’m having a great week. I don’t even know what I’m going to talk about in this session. And then by the end, they’re, you know, if it’s me, I’m in tears by the end of the session. But I walk into those spaces, I sit down. There’s no one there. There’s not even a front desk to speak of, let alone somebody there to tell me, Hey, here’s where the restroom is if you need to use it before your session. Here’s where you check in to let your therapist know that you’re you’re you’ve arrived. Here’s where the snacks and drinks and waters are, what have you. And so what has happened to me several times is I’ve sat down looking around. The question that goes through my head is, Do they even know I’m here? And so eventually they come out, they poke the head around the corner. One of my therapists at the in my first session said, Oh, Michael, I didn’t even hear you come in. And again, it’s just this hurdle that you have to go over mentally in that client or patient’s head of I’ve got so many other things that I’m thinking about ramping up into this engagement. The last thing I want to be thinking about is, does anybody know I’m here? That makes sense?

Katie Vernoy 12:29
It does.

Curt Widhalm 12:32
I have to imagine that this also extends to a lot of the intake paperwork and emails that go back and forth and for therapists who haven’t been on the client end of that, this doesn’t just exist in that physical waiting room sort of space. This also exists in a lot of the contact points that are consultations. What should we keep in mind for clients who are sitting in that virtual waiting room?

Michael Ashford 13:04
Uh, that’s a great question, and I don’t know that I have a wonderful answer to that. From a virtual or digital standpoint, there’s only because there’s only so much that can be done. Right? Most of us are using Zoom or some other digital platform to host our conversations. Maybe it’s run through your EHR system for HIPAA compliance reasons. I understand that whole whole get up. But again, the customer service experience even then is, how much am I making my client or patient have to think. I understand there’s intake paperwork to your point, Curt, there’s intake paperwork that has to be legalese. But can I send information along with that legalese to explain: Here’s what it’s going to say, here’s what it actually means. Here’s how this is going to go. Here’s what you can expect from me. When you join we’re going to start right at this time, and I will let you know it’s all again. Go back to setting expectations. When you join you’ll see a blank screen. I’ll pop in when our session is ready to begin. In the meantime, sit back, relax. You can have your camera off if you’d like. I would prefer the camera to be on so we can interact more. It’s all about expectation settings. Even more so I guess I would say in a digital state, because there is so much more unknown there. So I said I didn’t have a great answer, but maybe I, maybe I eventually got us around a to one. I don’t know you’d be the judge if it was great or not.

Curt Widhalm 14:32
Some of the things that I’m thinking about is the just massive amounts of paperwork that we can end up giving to somebody in the first place; that there’s oftentimes a lengthy informed consent, there’s questionnaires, there’s potentially requests for extra insurance paperwork for clinicians who are doing that, that can feel really overwhelming to have it happen all at once, and then there’s also the specifics of the types of clients that you’re working with, for example, for trauma therapists who are wanting to get an idea of what the particular pain points that a client are bringing in, but also not wanting somebody to go into a trauma response just in filling out paperwork, too. So these are all right kind of extra considerations that people might want to consider as you’re narrowing down that focus as well.

Michael Ashford 15:31
I’d agree and and when you think about this concept, I’ve repeated several times, but setting expectations, it is setting expectations for yourself as well as somebody starting out. We talked a little bit about somebody starting out and creating a business. What’s the expectation that you have for how you want to run your business? What’s the optimal state? Understand, Katie, to your point earlier, it can all feel overwhelming at first to try and get to that optimal state. But if you can control what you can control, if you can control those interactions and say, at this point, I know I can do this, I know I can set this expectation. I know I can deliver this information in as clear and a kind of way based on to your point, Curt, who I know I’m going to be interacting with, then we have a chance to really mold and shape the experience based on, certainly, how we want it as the business owner or the person running the practice or the session, and that that translates to the customer or the client.

Katie Vernoy 16:32
So having sat in that client seat, it sounds like a number of different times with different therapists, and also, you know, reflecting on your work in marketing, how would you design the customer service experience for solo or small group practices from the initial inquiry call through the final meeting?

Michael Ashford 16:52
Wow, goodness. How much time do we have here? So the marketer in me wants to jump back to what I was talking about earlier. When you when you start your website, when you create your LLC, Have in mind that best case, ideal client that you want to get into or that you want to serve. Again, we don’t have to cast a wide net, and it doesn’t also mean by narrowing that niche or that focus that you have to say no to anybody who falls outside of it. It’s just you want when somebody lands on your information, whether it’s your social profile, your Psychology Today profile, your website, you want them to see themselves in your messaging. So the marketer in me goes to you begin your experience. You’re the design of this customer experience, in your messaging and in your niche, who you’re serving, what you’re serving, and what you’re trying to help them with, the problems that they’re. So it’s not one of the things that that I would say is, you know that we can get real tactical here, by the way, on your h1 header on your website. And if you don’t know what that is, it’s just the big font that shows up first when the website loads, rather than saying your name and all of your credentials, say something to the effect of what problem you solve. So making this, riffing this off the top of my head, helping expecting mothers deal with the reality of losing their identity that they once held. You know, if that’s your niche expecting mothers or postpartum mothers, how do we how do we make sure we understand the problem, and how does our website speak directly to that? So set that, setting that aside on the marketing side.

Katie Vernoy 18:45
Sure.

Michael Ashford 18:46
Then weaving that information into your intake forms, setting expectations of what specifically will happen when somebody fills out a form on your website for an inquiry. I see all the time that the expectation that is set is someone will be with you as soon as possible. Well, could you be more specific in that to help set expectations? Someone or I or my administrative assistant will follow up with you within two business days. Now I know I’m gonna I can expect a phone call or an email within two business days. That makes sense to me, and it just it answers a question in my mind, when that phone call is going to happen or when that email is going to get sent, right? From there, it’s, what do we say on that call to explore that patient, what they’re needing help with, what they want to discover within themselves, making sure who’s ever doing the intake, whether it’s the therapist or somebody who’s who’s positioned or licensed to take it to do intake calls making sure that they understand your expectations as the practice owner, whether, if it’s a virtual assistant, same thing, setting expectations. Here’s how we ask questions, here’s the types of questions we don’t ask. And then the paperwork Curt you mentioned it. Does it align with everything up to that point, to the point where they then walk into the office that again, I’m checking in, somebody knows that I’m there. I’m not having all these thoughts of what’s going to happen next. Even sending an email the day of or the day before the appointment, saying, when you walk into the office, here’s what you can expect. Check in on this iPad over here. Have a seat over here. Bathrooms are down the hall to the left, and there’s a refrigerator stocked with sodas and water and some snacks. And you know, again, be cognizant of, do you want to have peanuts as part of that snack bag? If you’re a food therapist, right? Like all these things, I know it’s overwhelming everything that I’ve talked about to your point, Katie, but it is making sure every law, every point along the way. What is the message that I want to send here?

… 20:59
(Advertisement Break)

Katie Vernoy 21:01
It seems to me that therapists can get caught in the all the tiny little decisions, or they can default to this is what everybody does. And so I like that you’re talking about food allergies around, you know, making sure that you have inclusive furniture that you’ve really laid out what’s going on. And I think the piece that most folks don’t think about is that initial walking into the the waiting area and having no idea if I’m in the right place. Do they know I’m here? What’s going to happen? How long do I wait? Because I think especially therapy newbies may not know whether or not they’re going to have to wait. Usually, in you go to a doctor’s office, you wait 15, 20, 30 minutes, an hour. And with therapy, most of the time, your session should start right on time or very close to it. And so I think many of us, I think, forget how important it is to lay out those expectations and make it clear and and even just be so thoughtful with the process. I’m really appreciating this conversation.

Michael Ashford 22:15
Yeah, and it’s another experience I had was I was walking into a therapy office. It was a group practice, and I was walking in for the first time. I was still the only person in the the waiting room, the waiting area, and the rest of the offices, I could look around the corner, and there was just this long, long hallway with all these offices, and I had no idea which one was my therapist, and I also didn’t know, I hadn’t seen my therapist up to that point. I had spoken with him on the phone, but I hadn’t seen him. He was a recommendation. I had just called his office, did an intake, then spoken with him, and then we set that initial appointment once we agreed to work together. So I didn’t even know what my therapist looked like. And so it’s one of those things where I’m like, do I start going down? Like, because I didn’t, this was actually the first time I went to therapy. I didn’t know, yeah, you’re probably not supposed to go knocking on the other therapist’s door. They’re probably in session. But I didn’t know. So it’s one of the in my head, I’m wondering, what do I do? Do I just sit here and wait for somebody to come get me? Am I supposed to know and look for the name plate on the door and knock on that door? It’s just one of these, we often refer to it as person nearest the door, you know if, and of course, inevitably, somebody will come out thinking it’s their patient, and it’s, it’s, it’s me, I’m sitting there, and they’re like, oh, oh, I thought you were my patient. Sorry. Somebody will be right with you. So inevitably, I’ll start to look around the corner. Do they know that I’m here, and if I see somebody, Hey, do you know so and so I’m here to I’m here to meet with so and so. It’s just a decision point that does not need to happen or, or we can create processes around alleviating that decision point for our clients.

Katie Vernoy 24:06
It’s so funny because I just moved offices, and I’m very good at saying this is how you get to the office. And my office is a little confusing to get to, so I have, like, turn by turn directions that I’ve written out, and I, you know, created a little waiting area. So I say, this is where it is, and you’re going to sit there, and I’ll come get you, and I see I have several therapists on my caseload, and so they know the drill, right? And even therapists need a little bit more guidance when something isn’t quite as expected, if it doesn’t look exactly the same as a doctor’s office with a person at the front taking your insurance card and doing all that stuff. And so I think think this is really important for people to think about.

Michael Ashford 24:52
I also think it’s important for the therapist and protecting their time, protecting and helping them set expectations for themselves. So I know a lot of therapists, typically, the session will run for 50 minutes or 55 minutes, and they schedule it for an hour because they need that five to 10 minute buffer to, I don’t know, use the restroom or go get a drink of water, refill their water bottle, or finish up notes from that, that client. But in the meantime, a lot of people, if you’re like me, you like to show up five to 10 minutes early to us to an appointment, just on the off chance, hey, you might get called in early, or I’m from the Midwest, to be early is to be on time, in the Midwest, so I’m going to be there no matter what, five to 10 minutes early, even if I know the session starting right, right at the hour. But again, it’s it’s what expectation do I want to set for myself in being able to grab a bite to eat in between sessions, to be able to, again, use the restroom, grab a drink of water, touch base with my my clinical supervisor, and say, Hey, I really need to talk to you about this patient that I just saw remind me at the end of the day, can we just have a few minutes. Like those in the hall passing moments if you’re in a group practice, for example, or answer a text message from your kid, that is like, Hey, can I come home early from school today and you’re like, No, you can’t. So it’s as much setting the expectation for the patient in the waiting room, as it is, the patient or the the therapist, who is a human being too and has things to do in between those sessions.

Curt Widhalm 26:31
A lot of what you’re talking about is as far as the website, as far as some of the paperwork, sorts of things, makes a lot of sense for the solo practitioner or a fairly defined small group practice. For those practices where they might be seeing a wider variety of clients, because it is a group practice where somebody is the child therapist and somebody is the family therapist. How does your advice change?

Michael Ashford 27:01
Great question. Curt, I would say the advice doesn’t change much. Obviously, it needs to be a little bit, what’s the word I’m looking for? It needs to be a little bit like dispersed in terms of, like, making sure that it does fit, or fit all those those characteristics, or those requirements of the clients that you’re going to have in that space, and it’s a little bit harder to do when you’re in a larger group practice. I know of one of our customers that is exactly as you describe, and their waiting area is a little bit more doctor’s office-y, where you might have a private practice doctor, where it’s it is, got the kids area over to the side, but it also has, you know, a room if for neurodivergent folks who don’t want to, don’t want to hear the sound machine before they start to walk into the building, or they have a box of fidgets there, perhaps. It’s just making sure that there is something for everyone that in the experience they see themselves in something. If I’m the marketer and I go back to the website experience, yeah, we’re going to be talking in a little bit more generalized terms. That was the word I was looking for, generalized. If we’re talking a little bit more generalized terms on on the website, as it pulls up, we want to make sure that across the top of the page or further down the page we have specific language for all the areas that you do specialize in. So in that instance, we do have child therapists, we do have trauma therapists, we do have therapists who specialize in EMDR, we do have all these things right, like you want to speak to the audience that’s coming to the site. If it’s more generalized, the whole goal then would be to funnel them into a more specific experience, to the point where they are sitting down across from the therapists themselves that they’ve chosen to work with.

… 29:01
Advertisement Break)

Katie Vernoy 29:03
You’ve described a lot of different points at which making a decision to optimize customer service makes a lot of sense, and it goes into the whole experience, the kind of the client onboarding experience through getting into the room. Is there a point where good customer service actually interferes with clinical worker, or is there a need to balance being service oriented with maintaining firm therapeutic boundaries?

Michael Ashford 29:36
You said it right there: boundaries. As I mentioned when we first started talking so much of our perception of customer service is that one to one interaction with the the person that we’re helping. And when our boundaries, our professional and personal boundaries start to get crossed in the name of in the name of customer service. That’s where I that’s where I start to raise the red flag. When, when customer service means I’m taking an intake call after hours, because, for any number of reasons I don’t know. I don’t know one off the top of my head, but it’s eating into my it’s eating into my family time. You’ve got to weigh the balance of, again, that pull for Hey, every, every lead is a potential client. That means, you know, a butt in the seat, so to speak. That means I’m getting paid. I understand that we’re in, we’re in a time for pay industry or business here. I can, I can, I can understand the pull to want to deviate towards, Yeah, I’ll take that. I’ll take that after hours intake call. I’ll take that. I’ll schedule that session that eats a little bit into my commute time, so I get a little bit, I get home a little bit later than the normal. So it eats into my family time, or my time to sit down to dinner with my family. We when we cross personal boundaries and you know, if you do all of your intake for whatever reason, just an example, if you do all of your intake forms via email, but a client wants to get on a phone call and walk through all of them, that’s a personal choice that you have to make, a business choice that you have to make. But is there, is there a boundary that you’re starting to the line is starting to gray there. Good customer service does not have to mean giving the customer everything that they want. I think the customer is always right Is an outdated model, and we have to be able to again, set the expectations for ourselves about what we will and will not tolerate, where our boundary lines are, and gosh, is it is a client or is a is the need to create an experience for this customer, stepping on that line or stepping over it entirely?

Curt Widhalm 31:53
A lot of the boundary friction points that I see clinicians talking about is when they are actually enforcing set boundaries, and things such as enforcing late cancelation fees, bringing up rate increases. Any suggestions on how to minimize the amount of conflict that goes around those things?

Michael Ashford 32:16
Oh, well, now we’re starting to get into some some sales psychology here. But oftentimes in my experience, in working with and doing this myself for many years, we build up the ask in our head, the story we tell ourselves in our head becomes so much greater than what the reality is. So the rate increase, for example, we so often go into that conversation believing that we have to explain and justify the rate increase, when in actuality, the rate increase is what it is. You can simply have the conversation with your client at the end of a session, or whenever you deem appropriate. I want you to know and give you a heads up that in two months, I have to increase my rate to this, my hourly rate is increasing by $10 an hour to this, I want to let you know ahead of time, in case there’s anything you need to do to plan. If there’s any issues, let me know, and let’s talk about it. Stop talking after that. There’s no need to explain, Well, because my rents going up or, well, you know, the price of gas, it’s getting out of hand. Like we don’t need to explain what is best for our business and the choices that we made based on that. Now, the expectation you need to set for yourself as the therapist or as the business owner has to be if a client pushes back on that: I’ve been working with you for two years, and I’ve never missed a session. I don’t know that I can afford that. You need to have the conversation with yourself and say, am I willing to make an exception for this person? That’s an, that’s an expectation setting for you, and if somebody pushes back on it, what are you going to say? Same thing with the other situation that you, you brought up, Curt. What was the other scenario that you you brought up?

Curt Widhalm 34:17
Raising fees, late cancelation.

Michael Ashford 34:19
Cancelations. Yes. Clearly stating that in your forms, on your website, in your forms, even having the intake person walk through that as part of the process, so that there is no denying that they do not know that there is a cancelation fee, and simply enforcing that. Okay, I understand that not and not asking to collect the cancelation fee, but stating that you will. So how it would sound like: I need to cancel my session? Okay, understand we’re actually based on the documentation or based on the agreement that you signed when you you first came on as a client. Our cancelation policy is this. I’ll be collecting the fee for this session at this time. Now, again, an expectation that you have to set with yourself is, are there points where I’m willing to have some flexibility and wiggle room on that? Is, it is a child sickness a reason to cancel, to not collect on a cancelation fee? Is any number of these scenarios, but again, the more you communicate that to your customers, to your your clients, your patients, the better off you’re going to be and simply stating what the policy is that they were already made aware of. Oftentimes, the answer you get back is, yeah, I know I understand. But if you do get pushback, you know, you always have a a point in the in the or a line in the sand that you have drawn with them that says this is what it is, and this is what you agreed to and hold hold firm to that. It’s part of being a business owner. It is. It is part of the job.

Katie Vernoy 36:00
I think the big takeaway I have for today is clarity and expectations and making sure that when you set boundaries, that it’s based in a place of I put forward the expectations. This is where this doesn’t meet this. This is how I’m going to respond. I really like that. Before we run out of time, though, I do want to talk a little bit about The Receptionist.

Michael Ashford 36:23
I’m happy to talk about the receptionist. So we’re a wonderful we’re excited to be a partner of this show and this podcast, but we are a visitor management, visitor check in system. As it relates to this space, we’re a patient check in system. So if in creating that optimal experience, that optimal customer support experience for your patients and clients walking into a physical office, no longer having to sit there waiting if anybody knows that they’re there, then it’s iPad based. They walk up to the tablet, they check in. We do have a HIPAA ready environment available if that is of a concern, but so that patient information is protected and secure, but the patient checks in on an iPad. They’re there. They’ve checked in. The system now knows and lets them know through expectation setting that they’ve been recorded, and the therapist gets either an email, a text message, a Slack or a teams notification, or any other type of notification that, hey, your next appointments arrived. And that might be, if you’re the Midwestern or like I am, I might be there 15 minutes early because it was on my way home from work, and traffic wasn’t as bad. Now, in the middle of your session as you’re trying to wrap up the good part of the session, which is always the last 10 minutes, right? You don’t have to worry about the patient sitting out in the lobby that doesn’t know that anybody’s there. They know that somebody knows that they’re there. You know that they’re there, and now you can focus on wrapping up that session. That’s what our that’s the peace of mind, hopefully, that our system allows you. Now I do want to say, as I mentioned earlier, I’m the Senior Director of Marketing at Sign In Solutions. Sign In Solutions acquired The Receptionist in early January of this year, 2026 so The Receptionist for iPad is now Sign In App, and we’ll be we’ll be making those changes and modifications over the coming months, but want to make that clear as well, it’s now Sign In App.

Curt Widhalm 38:16
And where can people find out more about Sign In App and The Receptionist?

Michael Ashford 38:20
If you go to the receptionist.com you can find all the information there, and that will direct people to to the appropriate resources. But you can also go directly to the receptionist.com/mtsg I believe we’ll make sure and put that in the show notes, right?

Katie Vernoy 38:38
Yes, we will.

Michael Ashford 38:38
To sign up for a free trial, test the system out yourself, and if you do end up signing there’s a little bit of a discount for you there as well.

Katie Vernoy 38:46
Thank you so much.

Michael Ashford 38:47
You’re very welcome

Curt Widhalm 38:48
And you can find that show note over at mtsgpodcast.com. And follow us on our social media. Join our Facebook group, the Modern Therapist’s Group, to continue on with this and other conversations. And until next time, I am Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and Michael Ashford.

… 39:04
(Advertisement Break)

Announcer 39:06
Thank you for listening to the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter, and please don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss any of our episodes.