Making Bank as a Therapist

Making Bank as a Therapist

Curt and Katie talk with Tiffany McLain about the difficulty therapists have in charging enough to make a living, how ignoring money means you’re missing stuff in the clinical work, and ideas on how to shift your mindset to make bank.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Tiffany McLain, LMFT

Tiffany McLain, MFT is a therapist & consultant whose mantra is, “Full fees are the new black.” Via her business,, she helps therapists in private practice overcome their shame about marketing and making bank so they can help the clients they are truly passionate about serving. She’s been featured in Psychology Today Magazine, Psych Central, Huffington Post, KGO Radio, SF Weekly and Forbes.

In this episode we talk about:

  • The reasons that therapists have such a hard time charging for therapy
  • How therapists being upwardly mobile can impact their money issues
  • How many therapists are often marginalized and upwardly mobile, which can impact our tendency to sacrifice ourselves and put ourselves into the role of martyr
  • The zero-sum game that a lot of people think is true (but really is not)
  • Working through your money story and your identity around money
  • Shifting your mindset around money
  • Why we have a difficult time charging full fee
  • The culture of shame regarding talking about money
  • Money as a symbol of reality and of death
  • When clinicians are not addressing money stuff they are missing stuff in the clinical work
  • The danger of pretending that we don’t have needs, limitations, etc. and how that leads to unrealistic expectations for the clinician
  • How to give back and still make the living that you want
  • Why not everyone needs to go into private practice
  • Tiffany’s story of not fitting in and creating her own tribe
  • How she navigated having a strong brand in her coaching while doing psychoanalytic work in her therapy practice
  • How Tiffany works with therapy and coaching clients
  • How therapists get in their own way – getting their fees wrong, not leaning in

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together any resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

Tiffany’s Program: Lean in Make Bank

Fun with Fees Calculator

Profit First by Mike Michalowicz

Our Next Event:

The Therapy Reimagined Conference in Los Angeles in October 2018!!

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Who we are:

Curt Widhalm is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is a Board Member at Large for the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, a Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, Adjunct Faculty at Pepperdine University, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making “dad jokes” and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more about Curt at

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant. As a helping professional for two decades, she’s navigated the ups and downs of our unique line of work. She’s run her own solo therapy practice, designed innovative clinical programs, built and managed large, thriving teams of service providers, and consulted hundreds of helping professionals on how to build meaningful AND sustainable practices. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt’s youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more about Katie at

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Stay in Touch:


Voice Over by DW McCann

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano

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